guyharrisonphoto
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I DID IT!!

Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:22 am

Took the plunge and just got a KRAKEN SE. Can't wait to see how it dives and if it makes a big difference in getting close to critters for my photography!

jrltenn
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Re: I DID IT!!

Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:49 am

Congratulations. You won't be disappointed.

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rhwestfall
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Re: I DID IT!!

Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:06 am

good god, now you have done it...

welcome to the exclusive KOG (Kraken Owners Group). Hopefully you package has the secret decoder ring in it...

:lol:
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

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Herman
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Re: I DID IT!!

Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:29 am

Welcome to the group. If you have never dove a DH reg, PLEASE take the time to educate yourself on how they work and how to dive them. They do dive different but once you have gotten use to them, I think you will prefer them. I know I do.
Herman

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Bryan
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Re: I DID IT!!

Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:39 am

Herman wrote:Welcome to the group. If you have never dove a DH reg, PLEASE take the time to educate yourself on how they work and how to dive them. They do dive different but once you have gotten use to them, I think you will prefer them. I know I do.
THIS IN SPADES!
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Nemrod
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Re: I DID IT!!

Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:52 am

Welcome and good luck with your new purchase.

You as a photographer probably know more about fish behavior than I, quite sure you do, but, I was reading an article recently that explained what I had intuitively figured out a long time ago. It seems that fish have a built in trip lever, a turn and flee response, who would think :lol: . It seems, as you and I have probably observed, fish are not nearly as smart as those in FINDING NEMO and are actually quite stupid. Stimuli below that threshold, the fish continues to go about it's fishy business but if the stimuli exceed that trip point then the fish turns tail and swims a few feet and then if you do not pursue, it goes back to it's fish business of pecking on rocks.

A double hose regulator will help, but it is not magic. Things that trip the lever, large profiles, fast movements, erratic behavior, noise (vibration) and so on. So you can imagine that bubble face certainly is a stimuli for the fish. But it is only one of several. You will still need to use some stealth tactics but the lack of bubbles exploding around your face should provide you an edge you did not have before to get closer and stay closer.

Kind of like those commercials where somebody has halitosis, well, you just bought yourself a shiny new breath mint. :mrgreen:

James

swimjim
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Re: I DID IT!!

Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:35 pm

Bryan wrote:
Herman wrote:Welcome to the group. If you have never dove a DH reg, PLEASE take the time to educate yourself on how they work and how to dive them. They do dive different but once you have gotten use to them, I think you will prefer them. I know I do.
THIS IN SPADES!
Yep!

guyharrisonphoto
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First Name: Guy
Location: Fort Lauderdale FL

Re: I DID IT!!

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:34 pm

Thanks everyone.

Over the weekend I read the "Double Hose 101" thread and all of the documents. What a great resource! I will make my first dive at Blue Heron Bridge, nice, calm, protected and shallow. Will practice the hose recovery and clearing techniques, and also using the DSV. Also will see if there is a difference getting real close to macro critters without the front exhaust bubbles/noise.

One question the materials did not answer--do DH regs freeflow (not to do with the mouthpiece positioning above the can which I see triggers a freeflow, but rather in the same way a regular reg can sometimes freeflow). If so, how to you stop it? If, during the dive, you are in an upright position or on your back so the mouthpiece is higher than the can, does the reg freeflow, and if so how do you handle that?

If I missed something on the forums on this issue, please let me know as well.

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luis
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Re: I DID IT!!

Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:03 pm

A properly adjusted and functioning DH will not free flow when the mouthpiece is in your mouth or in this case when the DSV is closed, or when an open mouthpiece is lower that the regulator diaphragm.

The second hose (the exhaust hose) was added by Émile Gagnan in 1943 to bring the exhaust right in front of the demand valve diaphragm. This keeps the vertical water column distance from the demand valve to the exhaust to a minimum.

In a single hose regulator the exhaust valve is roughly about one inch distance from the center of the diaphragm. This is often referred to as "case fault geometry" in a single hose. Because of this distance, the cracking effort in a single hose regulator can never be adjusted to less than 1 inWC or it will free flow when the diver is in an inverted position.

In an Argonaut double hose the limit is about the radius of the exhaust valve (or a bit over 0.6 inWC) to avoid a free flow. This is because the exhaust is right on front of the center of the demand diaphragm. I personally think that a bit higher gives a bit of a safety margin to avoid free flow.
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

guyharrisonphoto
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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:41 pm
First Name: Guy
Location: Fort Lauderdale FL

Re: I DID IT!!

Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:01 pm

Thanks Luis

No freeflow as long as it is in my mouth. This is what I wanted to know. I like to photograph big animals from below with the sun behind them, lit by flash. I need to swim on my back to do this and just wanted to be sure that if I was not breathing there would be no freeflow of bubbles out the exhaust. Sounds like I am good to go on this.

My concern was purely practical. But, your detailed explanation of how freeflows happen, and when, was really enlightening.

With the success of this sale I am sure you will have lots of questions. I really want to say THANK YOU to you and Bryan for all of the effort you put in responding and educating.

Guy

guyharrisonphoto
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First Name: Guy
Location: Fort Lauderdale FL

Argonaut breathing questions

Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:47 pm

Hi everyone!

So, I have set up my new Kraken and am awaiting my first chance to dive it. However, I have a question about the breathing. Tested on land, the inhalation effort is pretty much effortless. But, the exhalation has resistance. I have to "push" to exhale so that if I am relaxed my cheeks puff up with the resistance. Is this normal behavior, and will this change underwater?

I ask this because Luis in one of his posts said that he tested the reg and it had one of the lowest exhalation efforts.

Thanks!

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luis
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Re: Argonaut breathing questions

Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:10 pm

guyharrisonphoto wrote:Hi everyone!

I have to "push" to exhale so that if I am relaxed my cheeks puff up with the resistance. Is this normal behavior, and will this change underwater?

Thanks!

That is not normal. First, disconnect the hose loop from the exhaust horn and try it again. That will isolate if it is a problem with the exhaust valve on the mouthpiece or the horn. There are two inline mushroom valves similar to the exhaust on a single hose second stage. They are silicone (and are new) so it is not likely that they would be stuck.

Is it a constant resistance or do you feel resistance and then it pops open?

It is a very rare occurrence, but I have had the exhaust mouthpiece valve come loose enough to come in contact with the hose and created a partial blockage. The only other explanation for high exhaust resistance is some foreign object in the hose.
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

guyharrisonphoto
Skin Diver
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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:41 pm
First Name: Guy
Location: Fort Lauderdale FL

Re: I DID IT!!

Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:20 pm

Thanks Luis. I will try that tonight. I will disconnect the hose and then blow through it and then the exhaust horn as well to see where the resistance is coming from. I guess I can take off the DSV to check the valve there but I didn't want to do that without asking my question here first. And, to answer your question, the resistance is consistent, it doesn't "break loose." It is not huge (i.e. no huffing and puffing required) but it is definitely more work than just a plain exhale.

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Bryan
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Re: I DID IT!!

Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:45 pm

Were you under the impression that no resistance at all would be felt when exhaling thought a loop that has two valves in the exhaust side?

Also, in your opinion is the work of exhalation you are experiencing with the Argonaut Kraken greater than or less than other Double Hose Regulators you have used ?
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

guyharrisonphoto
Skin Diver
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:41 pm
First Name: Guy
Location: Fort Lauderdale FL

Re: I DID IT!!

Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:32 pm

I am at a disadvantage because I have not used DH regulators before, hence my question (for all I know, what I am experiencing might be normal). It is just noticeably harder than my single hose reg (Poseidon Xtream) so I thought I would ask.

I did not intend it as a criticism, but it is an honest question. I am wowed by the effortless inhalation and so wanted feedback on the exhalation side.

I am going to do Luis' suggested tests tonight and see if anything changes.

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