Voit vs USD

[Nemrod]

Curiosity only, it seems that both USD and Voit had very similar if not actually rebadged versions of the same design regulators over much of their histories. So considering that for example the Voit Navy was almost identical to a USD DA Aqua Master and the Fifty Fathoms etc like a Mistral, why then and this is the question, did Voit not have an equivilent to the Royal Aqua Master? Yes, they had the Trieste but it was not a similar design as were all the other models so similar to one another. I guess the answer is that they had the Trieste but why was it the only model that differed radically from it's USD counterparts? Where did the Trieste design come from and why did Voit choose to go that way instead of having their own Royal version?

Along the same lines, if the Trieste was Voits answer to their corporate awareness of the increasing market dependence on dive gear requiring an LP source and the need for an SPG integral to the regulator rather than the tank, why did Voit just not do what Luis did to the Royal Aqua Master and add LP and HP ports? Not to take anything from Luis or to be dismissive of the Trieste, but surely both USD and Voit had the money and know how and personal on payroll to have done this long ago?

Why so alike and then so different?

Nemrod

[Nemrod]

I want to add one thing, this thread is not about the Phoenix but it occurs to me that one could take a Voit Navy etc and convert it to a Phoenix RAM or RAM as easily as converting a DA, just throwing that out there if it has not occured yet to anyone which I am sure it has .

Nemrod

[luis]

My understanding is that USD made the earlier regulators for Voit (I may be wrong). The most likely reason for a company to have its competitor make a product for them is because they didn’t have the resources, either manufacturing or engineering. Once they start producing there own product, I can think of many reasons why they want to make it different, starting from a marketing issue.

Not to take anything from Luis or to be dismissive of the Trieste, but surely both USD and Voit had the money and know how and personal on payroll to have done this long ago?

Why so alike and then so different?

Nemrod

If I had the money or their resources, I would not have made the Phoenix like I did. It wouldn't have been the Phoenix, It would have been a new regulator. I probably would have still made it into two parts with a removable first stage (not like the Trieste). But, as a minimum, I would have integrated the main body and first stage body better. We just can’t afford machining new main bodies, at least not yet.

I do like the Trieste second stage mechanism better, but even that design could use some of the refinements you see in other regulators.

[luis]

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe on making changes just for making changes. I am a strong believer of not reinventing the wheel, but there was room for improvements. I do have the advantage that I am talking about regulators that were design over 35 years ago (more like 45, or more).

For example: I would have never changed the size of the diaphragm unless there was a strong interference issue with valves, backpacks, tanks, etc. I would have redesign the diaphragm and second stage lever to get rid of the tabs and use a diaphragm compatible with the Mistral.

[21]

They are the same regulators. The basic difference is the front box, Voit is a European model

For many years Voit made US divers rubber products in turn US Divers sold Voit hard goods. In 1970s US Divers begin making their own rubber goods under Arnie Brochinsky who gave us the red white and blue Americana line in 1976.

When they moved from LA they moved to Santa Anna in Orange county, (The famous OC on TV) US Divers on New Delhi which was changed to Warner Avenue and Voit around the corner on Harbor Blvd. They relocated about 1/2 mile apart.


A few years prior to the intro of the MR 12 and Trieste Voit became very interested in the water sports and especially Scuba, The Voit regs were designed under Charlie Jehle as the Director of Water Sports, the engineers were; maybe Fred Schuler, and certainly Bill Oliver and Ed T???
Fred Roberts also may have had a hand in its concept and initial design -It is all Roberts, with the radical approach and modual concept.

Charlie and I think Fred are in the big reef in the sky. Bill left diving industry for more $$$ and is living in SD area. Ed, whose last name I never could pronounce or spell where abouts is unknown.

Willard Voit also went to the big reef and Voit was sold to American Machine and Foundry aka AMF.

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[Nemrod]

So then, Voit and USD never really collabarated in design engineering but shared resources and marketing? Well, the seamed hoses, when Voit stopped supplying USD rubber goods did USD have Voit making their hoses or somebody else or did Voit ever make USD hoses, better put, who made hoses for USD and Voit?

USD had Cousteu to promote for them and Voit had SeaHunt though somewhat earlier. It is hard to beleive these two companies are totally gone from the scene, replaced somewhat by gag--AquaLung--gag and gag--gag--gag, Mares, double gag .

I have seen Voit wetsuits that had a camo/tie'die pattern to them and in one catalog I looked at they had what appeared to be green, is this right?

James

[YankDownUnder]

U.S. Divers is not actually gone. It has been owned by the French company L'Air Liquide since Rene Bussoz sold it in about 1954.

There were other companies in the circle; Nihon Aqua Lung (Japan), and Australian Divers Spiro were another two. Other companies have also been bought, but now all are under one common name, 'Aqua Lung'.

Perhaps Aqua Lung is a more honest name. The name U.S. Divers, was somewhat misleading. It was coined by a Frenchman (Rene Bussoz) and owned by him until bought by a French company, over half a century ago. Rene then returned to France.

Zale Perry wrote in her book that US Divers provided the equipment to Sea Hunt, which was criticised, as Voit was most commonly seen. The closeness of the two companies might vindicate her error. The Vulcan knife carried by Mike Nelson must have been a US Divers product. I have never seen one with Voit on it. There was a Vulcan knife with Australian Divers on it. I had one as a boy. I have never seen Voit triples either and they were used in the series too. With US Divers making Voit regulators, perhaps in a way, Zale was right.

Maybe Sam can straighten me out here.

[duckbill]

Charlie and I think Fred are in the big reef in the sky. 21

If Fred is not with us anymore, then it is a very recent and sad happening. Last year he was selling off some vintage gear on eBay. I got a personalized, uncirculated 2nd ed. copy of "Basic SCUBA" from him September of last year.

[Creed]

If I had the money or their resources, I would not have made the Phoenix like I did. It wouldn't have been the Phoenix, It would have been a new regulator. I probably would have still made it into two parts with a removable first stage (not like the Trieste). But, as a minimum, I would have integrated the main body and first stage body better. We just can’t afford machining new main bodies, at least not yet.

I do like the Trieste second stage mechanism better, but even that design could use some of the refinements you see in other regulators.

I like how Voit did the Trieste/Titan II 1st stage. It looks the 1st stage could be completely modular, fitting into many different body styles. Did they in fact do this? I would love to find out that other Voit single hose regs used it. More experiments, and all

Also, I think that if a new regulator body was made at a hobbyist level, it would probably have to be cast to be economical. Keep the machining to a minimum.

[pescador775]

Dan Barringer mated a Trieste mechanism with USD Aquamaster box.

[JES]

Dan Barringer mated a Trieste mechanism with USD Aquamaster box.

Here's the link to Dan's post on VSS about his conversion efforts:

http://vintagescuba.proboards2.com/inde ... 485&page=1

[Creed]

Dan Barringer mated a Trieste mechanism with USD Aquamaster box.

I'm doing a Titan II conversion, with a set of cast cases like Dan. His is based on the 50 Fathom. Mine will be based on the Jet Air.

[21]

[quote="duckbill"][quote="21"]
Charlie and I think Fred are in the big reef in the sky. 21[/quote]

If Fred is not with us anymore, then it is a very recent and sad happening. Last year he was selling off some vintage gear on eBay. I got a personalized, uncirculated 2nd ed. copy of "Basic SCUBA" from him September of last year.[/quote]
___________________________________________________________

Fred "Fritz" Schuler, not Fred Reberts.

Lat conversation Fred Roberts was alive and well.

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