BigSwell
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Tank VIP Expiration?

Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:08 pm

When does, or rather SHOULD, a scuba tank VIP expire? Here in the Sandy Eggo there is conflicting shop SOP. I have always been told the expiration of the VIP is on the LAST DAY of the month punched. However a local shop here told me it is the FIRST DAY of the month punched, WTF? If that's true, then there is no way the VIP is actually good for 12months, it's not possible. I politely explained this to one of the shop owners and he yammed on about putting his shop at risk, explosions... yah yah yah. He also stated that if he let the sticker be valid until the end of the month, the VIP would be longer than 12months. Circular reasoning is what I thought as I explained what he was telling me is less than 12months.

While I respect that he has his personal shop's SOP, this guy actually VIP'd the tank last year and has record of the exact date he did so. He refused to understand my position that he has given me less than 12 months on this sticker. I have had heavy owner ego from this particular shop in the past and won't give them my busines in the future but wonder from the VDH forum's POV what the rest of the scuba industry follows: end of month expiration OR first day of month expiration. I'm familiar with DOT regs which of course there is none for VIPs.

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rhwestfall
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Re: Tank VIP Expiration?

Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:29 pm

Regrettably, the shop gets to make whatever rules it wants as it is their compressor and VIP is a SCUBA industry "voluntary" regulation....

won't fill blue tanks - yep
only fill pink 63's on Thursday, yep
not honor someone else's sticker - yep

fail their business - yep

To me, and to my experience to date, it has been the end of the month the following year that the sticker was punched...

a sticker punched 08/2019 is good until 9/1/2020

Curious as to their stance on a Hydro stamp....

YMMV
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Tank VIP Expiration?

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:08 pm

VIP = end of month punched.

(As written and ordained on the third stone tablet accidentally dropped and broken on the way down from Mt. Sinai but resurrected into the law of diving by NASDS; unless of course it's your shop and you want to make it the third Tuesday immediately preceding the one year anniversary punch date on the VIP sticker (+ three days if a sea lion takes a dump on your sister's tricycle on the final day).

There are rules, and then there are laws. VIP is a made-up industry rule. I'm not against the rule mind you. I've seen tanks in a rental fleet that should be VIP'd every six months. I have always gone by the end of the month custom and never been questioned. I have, however, had dive shops refuse to fill a tank during the last month of a hydro stamp. From what I have been told, there is quite the ongoing discussion as to what the federal LAW actually is on that subject. M
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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luis
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Re: Tank VIP Expiration?

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:59 pm

It is very clearly spelled out on CFR 49 (Code of Federal Regulations) that re-qualification is good until the end of the month of the stamped date. i can provide exact paragraph later.

This is the DOT law and it should be follow as good practice, but as we know many LDS make their own rules.



I am intentionally not using words like hydro testing or VIP. I am very specifically using re-qualification. Same language as the CFR.

Will expand later. If needed.
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Tank VIP Expiration?

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:29 pm

luis wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:59 pm
It is very clearly spelled out on CFR 49 (Code of Federal Regulations) that re-qualification is good until the end of the month of the stamped date. i can provide exact paragraph later.

This the DOT law and it should be follow as good practice, but as we know many LDS make their own rules.



I am intentionally not using words like hydro testing or VIP. I am very specifically using re-qualification. Same language as the CFR.

Will expand later. If needed.
This is my understanding as well, but who am I to argue with dive shop owners that are of vastly superior intellect than I? 8)
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

BigSwell
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Location: Comeoiwannalaya HI

Re: Tank VIP Expiration?

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:29 pm

I don't really want to call out the name of this shop as there are only a few in the area now BUTT it does onsite hydro's soooooo..... you'd think they would be a bit more accommodating; especially since the log book of hydros/VIPs is right next to the fill panel. They did both hydro & VIP last year on this tank for me, now they act like it's something I picked up at the swamp meet and asked to have it filled (I just need it topped off with less than 1,000psi.) I'm no stranger to their operation, until now. Just pisses me at the way the owner handled this, it was a lesson in what NOT to do in a customer service oriented business.

h2operations
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First Name: Paul
Location: Coronado CA

Re: Tank VIP Expiration?

Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:00 pm

I have run into this issue for several years. At the end of the day remember the LDS while friendly, is still in the business to make $$. With the discount houses and internet clearance sales, it is no wonder we see this issue as well as others. I am waiting for my certification card for mask clearing.....
With that being said , I had a shocker the other day when a shop told me a vip was good till the end of the month. I had dropped off a bunch of tanks for a friend who wanted to get them all on the same cycle... I think the attendant must have been new !
On a side note I remember when someone pumped gas, checked oil, and washed your windshield. It now only happens in New Jersey ( it's state law that you can not pump your own gas) .

swimjim
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Re: Tank VIP Expiration?

Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:47 pm

rhwestfall wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:29 pm
Regrettably, the shop gets to make whatever rules it wants as it is their compressor and VIP is a SCUBA industry "voluntary" regulation....

won't fill blue tanks - yep
only fill pink 63's on Thursday, yep
not honor someone else's sticker - yep

fail their business - yep

To me, and to my experience to date, it has been the end of the month the following year that the sticker was punched...

a sticker punched 08/2019 is good until 9/1/2020

Curious as to their stance on a Hydro stamp....

YMMV
Yep, those Blue tanks are pretty scary!!! As I have accumulated my own tank farm over the years, I did the PSI tank inspection course and bought my own compressor. No more BS from the dive shop. I also have nine years in with the local fire department dive team and I can get free air that way too. For me though, the key was taking the PSI course so I can do my own inspections. At least I know for a fact, mine get done. And they get done properly. Not always the case with a dive shop. The PSI class cost $300.00 or so every three years. I have in excess of 25 tanks. Do the math. I also do inspections for my friends and that also helps cut down my costs. I also built a tumbler. 95% of my tanks are steel and when they come back from the hydro facility they usually are flash rusted. I can fix that at home.
Even though I live in the Midwest, I dive twelve months a year. Yes, some months are through the ice. I don't let silly things like tank inspections slow me down. Over the years I have learned how to service everything I dive. Regulators, tanks, wings, the works! As a result, when I get to a remote location, I generally have zero gear problems. I do bring along the best save a dive kit you've ever seen and have saved the day for others many a time!

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rhwestfall
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First Name: Robert
Location: "La Grande Ile"

Re: Tank VIP Expiration?

Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:51 am

Ditto for me.

I vip my own (28) tanks, have my own compressor, and service all my gear.

Our litigious society has me avoiding providing service for others...
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

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kgehring
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Re: Tank VIP Expiration?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:43 am

End of month unless you are at Gilboa. He makes up his on rules!
http://www.scubamuseum.com
Over 400 vintage regulators in my collection

SeaHuntJerry
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Location: Minneapolis

Re: Tank VIP Expiration?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:28 pm

Yes I know who e that is first day August vip expires BS.
Too bad!

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SurfLung
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Re: Tank VIP Expiration?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 am

luis wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:59 pm
....I am intentionally not using words like hydro testing or VIP. I am very specifically using re-qualification. Same language as the CFR.
I too, like that term "re-qualification". The HydroStat company that did so much work for me, Rich, Ron, and SwimJim lists Cylinder Re-Qualification as the service that they do for not just Scuba tanks, but also welding, medical, beverage CO2, propane, etc. When I told him we have dive shops that refuse to provide hydro and VIP service to our vintage tanks, he said, "Well that's why we test the tanks... To see if they're still good. If they pass the tests, they are good and we re-qualify them for service."
SurfLung
The Freedom and Simplicity of Vintage Equipment and
Vintage Diving Technique are Why I Got Back Into Diving.

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