old'n dangerous VRS shiny'n expensive

[Chris]

I've read several people on here say they liked regs from the 60s-70s more than new stuf. Please tell me why. Is it because it performs better or because its fun to get looks from the people diving "safe" stuff. I haven't dove enogh regs to get a comparison so I curious. I'm thinking mosly of single hose like my titan II vrs my oceanic. Someone on here is still using a Titan 2 in their open water courses and likes it. I like diving stuff everyone else is afraid to touch, makes me feel like a better diver.

[Herman]

I mainly like older regs (single hose)because they different. From a performance perspective it really depends on the regs. What you have to understand is 99% of the performance of a reg is determined by the second stage, the first has little to do with it. As long as the IP is stable and the first stage is capable of flowing sufficient amount of gas, it will work as well as the latest and greatest whiz bang first stages. Most any of the first stages from the mid 60 on will do that. Internally, an old Conshelf, MR-12, Titan or Scubapro MK-2 or 5 are the same as their modern counterparts....the USD/Al regs still use the same internal parts, they are just arranged differently. The magic comes at the second stage. Will a vintage second stage hold it's own with a top end second of today, no but some of them properly tuned will come close. Seeing how good we can get them is part of the fun. The Titan/MR12/Swimmaster second is one of those, properly set up it breaths very good. The best of them is likely the SP 109 although I have found the Dacor metal XLE to be very good as well.
To be accurate, I use the vintage (early small model) Titan/MR12 second stage in class, attached to a 3rd generation (modern) MR-12. I like the little size plus it makes me easy to pick out in the class. The main reason I don't dive vintage single hose first stages in class it the lack of LP/HP ports. To meet standards I need at least 3 lp and 1 hp. Most older first that meet that criteria are at lest mid 70s and look so close to modern regs there are no show points for using them.

[Nemrod]

See, "old and dangerous" are not mutually inclusive. I am old, but not dangerous (well, maybe ) however, dangerous is a relative term anyways. The Tekna T2100 could be considered dangerous and it is not even vintage. There is lot's of junk equipment made through the years and there is plenty of it still being made.

The fact is that most of the older regs, Conshelfs, MRs, SP109s, our Aqua Masters, the Voit dh regs, they are not really much different from what you buy today.

My, one of my first regs, my 1966 Calypso j has evolved, it evolved into the Conshelf which evolved into the Titan of today. The Titan of today and all of ALs diaphragm first stages evolved from the RAM first stage. An oversimplification but essentially true.

The Voit sh regs evolved into the MR which is still made today though hard to see it I suppose.

The "old" regs are usually metal, brass and chrome, and are very durable, do not have dry mouth, they are usually easy to work on and perform as well and reliably as anything made today. A Conshelf or SP109 is a superb regulator then or now.

I would not feel under gunned with Conshelf or SP109, now some of that ancient Healthways and Sportsways stuff from the early 60s, cute, but horrid breathers.

Just gotta pick your weapon with a bit of knowledge.

Brass and chrome single hose regs rock.

Nem

[Ron]

I think, for me, it is part of the overall system. When you think vintage diving, you realize that a SCUBA was really just a tank, a harness or pack of some sort, and a regulator. You took a skin diver, who was a bubba with a mask, snorkel, fins, and a weight belt, and put a SCUBA on him. Diving with that old, although not outdated, system is fun for me. You just don't get that same juice from a giant jacket BCD with a million danglies and a plastic regulator. Modern SCUBA gear, by and large, engulfs you. A double hose, a steel 72, and a j-valve are all one thing to me. They simply are a vintage SCUBA. It's also nice that this equipment fosters an environment of learning a lot of things. You learn to track gas, you learn more about the scientific effects of diving, and you realize that the best computer is the one between your ears.

It's like Nemrod says:

"We swim down, we swim around, we swim up."

This concludes your indoctrination briefing for today. Modern SCUBA books will be burned en masse later.

[OystrPir8]

Very well-put Slonda! It is the ethos of what vintage diving is: adventure, simplicity, exploration, self reliance, ability and freedom. Diving any regulator with bad rubber or oxidized parts is dangerous, no matter how many hoses or do-dads there are. SCUBA is a very simple devise, really. The companies would have you think otherwise and encourage dependence and blind trust. The world's vision of diving has evolved since the 60s, from a sport for adventure-minded swimmers and curious athletes, to a passive and expensive recreational activity for retirees who rely on others for the safety of their equipment and who expect a turnkey experience to be provided by a resort, boat or dive shop. It seems now to be all about floating around, arms-crossed and silicone-nosed, pointing at things and nodding at each other. It is the original model of what diving was that appeals to me and the simple, beautiful equipment is a big part of that. The vintage dive community is a phenomenal group of people as well and I have learned a lot from them.

[Ron]

I agree man. When my wife was on leave from her last combat rotation to Iraq, we went to Aruba for vacation. We brought our gear, rented some tanks, and asked directions to the nearest dive site. It turned out that there was a wrecked airplane about a 1/8 to 1/4 of a mile off shore. We swam out to the wreck on a compass azimuth that a local gave us, and we had an adventure. We followed that with seafood and beer. That's what adventure is, not that six pack cattle car boat crap. Then again...you have to be able to swim to do that.

[antique diver]

...you have to be able to swim to do that.

What? Now you have to be able to swim to dive?

Maybe someone should tell that to some of the local "Dive Boutiques"!
(luckily, we do still have a few real Dive Shops around here as well)

[crimediver]

I also hate the cattle boat dives. I have attended some dive club meetings and it seemed all they wanted to do was sell dive trip packages. While I would love to dive the Galapagos Islands or Truk lagoon I cannot justify the $$$$ when I have other priorites. After turning down the various dive packages, the club president asked me in a slightly condescending voice "You do dive don't you?" I replied in the affirmative. He then asked me what kind of diving I did. I replied "Free diving." He asked "You don't use scuba?" I told him I did but my scuba diving trips costs me little or nothing.

My idea of diving is like Slonda's. I swim out to a wreck, paddle out in a kayak or go off of my boat. It is much better to take the road less travelled. Most of it does not cost me a dime. Or if I spend some money it is quite a bit cheaper than going on a dive boat.I once rented a boat from a local for 18 bucks and used a paper placemat with a navigation map on it I got from a restaurant in Florida to go out to hit Molassas Reef. I had a blast. I spear dinner and often bring back some goodies so I am not being selfish to the family as I enjoy my hobby.

The dives I used to make offshore in NC Outer Banks have gotten so expensive the fees have tripled. I cannot justify them. But I can do beach dives and hit many wrecks that off excellent diving and spear fishing just 1000 feet of the beach. Besides, once you have seen the U-85, you have seen it.

I dive the heck out of the rivers as well. I find so many interesting artifacts it is amazing. I am always locating indian artifacts, civil war items and newer items. The old lady is sporting an antique platinum ring with 9 diamonds and 7 saphires I found. I pick up gold necklaces from diving rope swing locations. I have dozens of watches I have picked up.I have pulled up over 1000 pounds of aluminum beams and many hundreds of pounds of copper tubing all which were recycled and used to purchase more gear, pizza and beer.

My dive boat is either a kayak, canoe or johnboat that cost almost nothing to run. I get my air gratis by virtue of being on a dive team or from the fire department. I have some quality dive gear but I got it cheap by waiting for a deal or getting it at a yard sale. I am patient and wait until I get it for a price I like. The newer gear is shiny but my old stuff has worked just fine and I can work on it myself. When I drop in on a LDS in my travels they always try to sell me new gear. I have no use for it and once they find out the gear I use is vintage many think I am an idiot for diving it. Once in a while I generate some interest but mostly they dismiss it and probably laugh behind my back once I leave the shop.

Sometimes I feel divers are at the mercy of operations that take advantage of new divers and don't introduce them to the idea that they can go almost anywhere to dive and do not have to charter a dive boat. Divers just need to go where there is some water and get in it.

[usddude]

I like your reply slonda...crimediver good one too.

Steve

[DaleC]

That's my style too crimediver. I find stuff because I look where other people don't.

I love diving but am a blue collar worker with a wife, three kids and a mortgage. Some of my friends only go diving every month or two but I go pretty well once or twice a week so cost is a real issue. I can't afford to drop $100-$200 every time like some of my friends who tend to only want to dive off charter boats.

I also get real pleasure from doing simple dives with simple gear. Basic diving allows me a great deal of latitude to experiment (which I enjoy). I will be forever grateful that I got into vintage equipment because it lead me to re-examine the basic concepts of diving (in particular how skin diving and scuba diving can go hand in hand) and showed me that you don't always need store bought life support.

Yes, I still dive modern on occasion, with BP/W, computer etc... but I am not limited to that. Even diving J-valved, double hose and sans BC feels like just scratching the surface. From there I am exploring diving's earlier roots.

Years in, just doing basic OW dives for the most part, and never having dove a tropical destination, I am still excited about diving and am often planning my next dive on the way home from my last one. Not bad for a sport with a huge drop out rate.