Phoenix HPR second stage

[Nemrod]

No way I would throw away a new seat over the stem slot being broken. I can still adjust it if need be. I just like having spare parts around, it makes me happy and fuzzy feeling knowing I have spares.

Yes, once these new HPR valves are installed, which are exceedingly simple to install and adjust, it is nearly plug and play, and the adjustment is not sensitive at all nor does it require any great precision or critical adjustment.

Nem

[Nemrod]

Well, I now have a season on the three HPR regulators I have converted. One is a square label RAM, no Phoenix, the other two are PRAMs. Well, one I just converted so I am only reporting on my first two. I have to tell you, despite a little bit of skepticism early on for various reasons (hey, I am getting old and ornery-er).

I am impressed. These HPR seconds are bullet proof and best of all, once set up, they just need no adjustment.Tthey are not fussy at all and nobody has to lift yer skirts--uh cans--to know it is not a plain old DA/RAM. Yes, the HPR is that good. I cannot over emphasize that it is so easy to set up and because it is so stable (the new seat material probably contributes as much as the improved design) you can adjust it down to a ridiculous .6 inches and with that new more flexible diaphragm, maybe even .3 inches.

My RAM square label, non-Phoenix, cracks at .3 (was .7 until I installed super flex diaphram), dove it mostly at SD IX and here and there. About 20 dives this year.

My PRAM round label, used on numerous dives and Coz and all during my near month long Florida adventure, cracks at .4 inches now with the super flex diaphragm. Probably about 70 dives this year.

My Navy PRAM, no super flex diaphragm, cracks at .6 inches. Only five pool test dives. I am using the grey single stage diaphragm in it. Love the grey.

Even if you do not care for the Phoenix because you are an old vintage only coot , this HPR is worth doing. I just did not really appreciate originally what an improvement these are. Once installed, if you have all of the latest silicone goods and DBRV, you have an essentially near zero maintenance/adjustment regulator. I know we have had threads before about maintenance and since that is my field, I am all about working on stuff, well, this is the Maytag conversion. Put it in and forget about it, frustrating as all hell for me because it needs nothing, no tinkering needed.

What the hell, double hose regulators that do not need tinkering, what good is that .

Nem

[luis]

What the hell, double hose regulators that do not need tinkering, what good is that .

Nem

Nice comments, but now I think that you can go diving some more.

[couv]

This is a great thread especially for someone comme moi who is just getting caught up with the DH world.

First a question then a request:

Other than for aesthetics, is there any reason to have one of the ring slots directly under the venturi hole and in line with the horn? Does it serve to increase/decrease the venturi effect?

I've enjoyed reading every word of this thread, but how about taking all this great information and pictures and condensing it into one of those cool, concise PDF documents?

Thanks all,

Couv

[Herman]

Body ring slots?? I don't know of any reason, even if it did have an effect you would have to add gaskets between the body and the cans making it dicey to do. Screw it down until it is snug, where ever the slots stop is where they should be. Any venturi tweaking is done by covering (+ venturi) or uncovering (- venturi) the vent holes (the smaller holes that are located next to the retainer screws) in the HPR.

[Chris]

Did I just mess up and am going to have to take my can back apart? I adjusted my hpr without looking at your picture first and used the cut out on the tool. I would hate to have all my air blowing out my duck bill while on a dive. The whole reason I am adjusting is because some how my hpr got smashed down. I think it happened when I took a HUGE breath with the tank turned off to make sure my diaphragm was tight and not going to slip. On my last dive I just guessed on the height. I had it slightly above the can and it worked good so I thought the cutout on the tool would work even better. Wrong?

Then use a straight edge across the top edge of the can making sure the nylon tabs are just barely touching or just slightly lower than your straight edge you would have it setup to perform fantastic and satisfy 90% of the divers on earth....Where you go from there is up to you.

[Herman]

Maybe not. Was the reg pressurized when you set/checked the lever? If not, the lever will move down an 1/8 or so when it is pressurized. That is normal and the reason the lever must be set with the reg pressurized. Also, the check needs to be done with the cans horizonal, not vertical as you show in the top photo. When pressurized, there is usually some free play that needs the be taken up by the cans laying horizonal- gravity holding the lever down. If it's set too high, the reg may to be fine until you install the band clamp or clips, at which point it will start to freeflow. I would pressurize the cans and see if the reg freeflows, it it doesn't your good. If the lever is borderline too tight, you may have to reset it later as the LP seats take a set. In any case, installing a band clamp is well worth the expence so dissambly is quick and easy.

[Chris]

thanks Herman. There wasn't any free flow in my garage after reassembly but I wanted to make sure hitting the water wouldn't change it. I do have the band clamp instead of clips so it wouldn't be anything to lower it back down. Just technical stuff I like to learn.

[Chris]

just for curiosity, what reg is the cutout on the tool used to adjust?

[Herman]

The original Mistral (not the 2005 POS)

[Bryan]

The original Mistral (not the 2005 POS)

From the catalog webpage.

Copy of the LaSpirotechnique Royal Mistral lever height gauge.

Tool works great for all US and French single stage regulators. Lever height recommendations in the U.S. Divers manual are too conservative in my opinion. The LaSpirotechnique gauge puts the levers a little higher for superior performance. Getting the correct height is crucial to the ease of breathing that single stage regulators are known for...

Any straight edge can be used for the initial setup of the HPR...

The cutout section of the LaSpirotechnique lever height gauge has no relevance to the HPR at all.

[Chris]

I went ahead and split my can again. with the air turned on and the tank on it's side the nylon tabs on the hpr stick up above the straight edge but metal forks would clear if the nylon tabs weren't there. I think I will leave it alone. Thanks for your help, always fun to learn something.

[Chris]

After getting back from a club dive I instinctivly picked my reg up over my hed and took a breth to check for wate, without the tank hooked up. Realising what I did I imediatly took the can apart and saw yet again my hpr was bent down (checked preasurised with tank on side same as last time). Is my lever possibly week or do I just need to remember not to breath on it not hooked up to air.

[Nemrod]

After getting back from a club dive I instinctivly picked my reg up over my hed and took a breth to check for wate, without the tank hooked up. Realising what I did I imediatly took the can apart and saw yet again my hpr was bent down (checked preasurised with tank on side same as last time). Is my lever possibly week or do I just need to remember not to breath on it not hooked up to air.

After you re-bend the lever back to it's original shape, would you please check the travel and let me know if the lever nylon tabs drop below the IP adjustment nut before full travel is reached. I also want to know what is the limiting point, what stops the lever from continuing to move down? A PM is okay. Thanks.

Nem

[Chris]

Wow, I had my hpr lever way wrong. Why weren't you all making fun of me. Thank you Bryan for getting me a new lever. As to why I originally bent it in the first place chock it up to operator failure.