Pressed nuts on plastic cans.

[luis]

Pressed nuts on plastic cans.

In order to minimize the amount of loose hardware, I have always used pressed nuts on Rob’s reproduction plastic cans.

The pressed nuts have been around for decades.

I buy them by the bag, but I think Rob is planning on offering them in the required quantity of six per can.

I find it very handy not having loose nuts. It makes opening and closing the can a lot easier. You don’t have to be holding the nuts and you can’t loose them. It is a lot easier to just keep track of six screws that are on the front of the can. You never have to turn regulator over to check that everything is lining up.


The pressed nuts are very easy to install.

I use a number 10 drill bit (0.196 inches) to open the existing holes from the back can. I drill them from behind, but do not drill them all the way though.

I only drill about half way down. The depth is not at all critical, but I don’t want to drill all the way through.

The plastic is soft enough that I have drilled several cans by just turning the drill bit by hand to cut the hole.

After opening the holes to the right size it is very easy to press the nuts.

I use a “Channel lock: style of pliers on the edge of my work bench to press them in. Any piece of wood can be used to protect the face of the can.

I press them just slightly and check for alignment. At this point it is easy to rotate the nuts slightly if the hexagon is not properly aligned. The nuts will work even if the hex is not aligned, but it looks better if they line up with the edge.

See the pictures below for details.

[Bryan]

Thanks Luis. Nicely done!

[1969ivan1]

Thanks for the write up Luis. They are in stock at The Scuba Museum and will be on the site shortly. They are not historically correct, but I think that if Voit would have it to do all over again they would have done it this way.

[luis]

They are not historically correct, but I think that if Voit would have it to do all over again they would have done it this way.

Well, I have a different opinion on this subject.

These types of nuts have been around for a long time (easily pre-dating the plastic cans). Insert nuts have been used in aluminum panels for a long time. So the nuts are definitely vintage.

Voit may not have offer them on there regulator, but after market modifications is very historically correct.

It is modern divers that are afraid to modify their regulators. In the vintage days it was very common to modify, fabricate, and mix all kinds of dive gear. Modifying regulators was very common. I know I did it and I have seen many historically correct modified regulators.

IMHO, the only reason we don’t see insert nuts used more often is because before the Internet there was a lot of hardware that was only known and accessible in industrial applications. I used them on my sailboat (aluminum mast) decades ago, but I worked in an industry where they were common.


IMHO, based on my observations, “historically correct” and “catalog correct” are two totally different conditions. As an example: What we often call Frankenstein regulators are in fact very historically correct (whether we like them or not).

Sorry about the long post, but I have an issue with the misuse of the term “historically correct” when in fact it is referring to “catalog correct”.



Note: not all after market modifications have been successful or even good ideas. In this case the use of threaded insert is what I consider a functional major improvement (and IMO they look good). I have been using them on Rob’s plastic cans for a while and in many other applications before that.

[Ken]

I think Luis's idea of using the insert nuts is great. And this whole bit of "Vintage" and "historically correct" is almost comical. Why are things designed and manufactured the way the are? Mostly it has to do with having a part that meets the design intent and is economical to manufacture. That doesn't always mean that the design is the "best" that it could be, it means that it does the job as intended and that they could make it for a $1.00 and sell it for $2.00. Also, maybe, the person (or persons) responsible for the original design just didn't think of it. Remember, Henry Ford didn't put a heater in the Model T, but you can't by a Ford today without one. Why is that?

So if you can come up with a way to make a vintage, historically correct regulator better, I am all for it.

Let us take Luis's insert nut idea a bit farther. Lets consider what engineering process was used when someone, whom ever that might be, decided to have reproductions cans produced. They went to a plastic molder and paid them to make the tooling and mold the cans. Now, what if they would have changed the design slightly by adding a hex to the round core pins that made the six holes in the rear can. That way you would have a molded can that would have a recessed hex on the back side. When you assembled the unit, the nut would be held in place during tightening of the bolt and the nut would be recessed. (Yes, I did use the term bolt instead of screw ) In this way you could have had a cleaner, more elegant design for practically the same cost. There would be a slightly higher tooling cost because the core pins would cost slightly more, but in the life of the tool, you could have this added design feature for free! But then, Luis would not have had to come up with his insert nut idea.

So, did they really do their "do diligence" on the design review for the new tooling that produced the "historically correct" cans? (I'm probably going straight to hell for that one.)

Ken.

[Bryan]

The double hose community has several different trains of thought running though it....Many people won't touch items that have been reproduced that are not true to the original in all ways possible....Yet there are others like Luis that enjoy experimenting and modifying the equipment and being historically correct is secondary.
I found out the hard way a time or two that it is better to offer a reproduction of something as exact as I can and let folks modify it to their liking.....OR simply state it's a completely new item like the Phoenix or Duckbill Eliminator and go on from there.

Next Friday you guys will see a sample of a new VDH product that was originally made in the vintage era to work with double hose regulators. It will also work just as well with any modern equipment on the market with no modification or changes

[luis]

I think the way Rob had the cans molded is fine. He actually made sure there was something different inside so no one would try to pass them as original (I can’t remember the difference).

Adding the pressed nuts is an easy add-on option. Maybe not everyone feel the need for them.

The flip side is that I probably would not recommend adding the pressed nuts to an original can. Mostly because they are rare and I don’t know how the aged plastic will behave.

I also believe in preserving some “catalog correct” items.


My point was in the common and even accepted use of the term “historically correct”.

But first a disclaimer: English is not my first language and I am by no means a language expert. But, I have been studying English (and communication in general)… probably most of my adult life… and I will never master it (or even Spanish, etc. for that mater), but I try.

So back to my point:
The term “historically correct” I think has taken a common meaning that I feel is imprecise and misleading. The term “historically correct” is being used only by items described in publications like catalogs and maybe some magazines; it is ignoring the real world. That is why I believe that “catalog correct” would be a more precise term for what some are referring to.

As I mentioned, “Frankenstein regulators” were very common and can not be erased from history, just because they were not in the catalogs.


In some ways I think of it like the terms “positive buoyancy” and “negative buoyancy”. Everyone in the Scuba industry knows what those terms means, but in reality those are terms only used in the Scuba industry and have no real meaning to the rest of the world. But this is a totally different subject.

[Ken]

I think the way Rob had the cans molded is fine. He actually made sure there was something different inside so no one would try to pass them as original (I can’t remember the difference).

My intent was not to say that Rob made the plastic cans wrong. I am glad he made them period. What I was really trying to get at is that there are many reasons why things end up as they do, engineering, manufacturing and marketing are very dynamic. Sometimes things end up being a success with almost no effort, even if they aren't very good. Or vise-versa.

I am of the opinion that you should always look at things with an eye towards improvement. If some of the manufactures had been more involved in continuous improvement they would still be in business.

When you look at the differences between the early single-hose regulators versus the double-hose regulators of the same time period the only real improvement that I can see is that the single-hose units had both LP and HP ports on the first stage. Also, they where probably less expensive to mass produce and they where marketed as being new and modern.

Ken.

[swimjim]

But first a disclaimer: English is not my first language and I am by no means a language expert. But, I have been studying English (and communication in general)… probably most of my adult life… and I will never master it (or even Spanish, etc. for that mater), but I try.

Your English is better then a lot of people that have it as their first language. My first wife was Hispanic. She got to a weird point where she really couldn't speak English nor could she speak her original Spanish. I remember, with some amusement, the looks on her siblings faces when she would try and express herself. They couldn't understand her either.
You've done very, very well indeed! Now back to, er... pressed nuts. LOL

[eskimo3883]

How come no one asked Luis about his photo of the Trieste body on Rob's cans?

[USdiver]

All of this discussion about historically versus period correct versus Frankenstein regulators on the subject of nuts and cans has got me hungry.

Anyone else want some Mixed Nuts in a Tin Can?

[antique diver]

How come no one asked Luis about his photo of the Trieste body on Rob's cans?

Because I was still chuckling about Luis' comment in the first post:
"I find it very handy not having loose nuts".

That something I have been concerned about since noticing my beard was getting a little gray.

[Drado]

...

Next Friday you guys will see a sample of a new VDH product that was originally made in the vintage era to work with double hose regulators. It will also work just as well with any modern equipment on the market with no modification or changes

This last statement had me running off to the store

[luis]

I just realised that I made a mistake. a #10 = 0.193 inches, a # 9 = 0.196 inches.
Either one will work, a number 9 works a bit better.

Pressed nuts on plastic cans.

In order to minimize the amount of loose hardware, I have always used pressed nuts on Rob’s reproduction plastic cans.

The pressed nuts have been around for decades.

I buy them by the bag, but I think Rob is planning on offering them in the required quantity of six per can.

I find it very handy not having loose nuts. It makes opening and closing the can a lot easier. You don’t have to be holding the nuts and you can’t loose them. It is a lot easier to just keep track of six screws that are on the front of the can. You never have to turn regulator over to check that everything is lining up.


The pressed nuts are very easy to install.

I use a number 10 drill bit (0.196 inches) to open the existing holes from the back can. I drill them from behind, but do not drill them all the way though.

I only drill about half way down. The depth is not at all critical, but I don’t want to drill all the way through.

The plastic is soft enough that I have drilled several cans by just turning the drill bit by hand to cut the hole.

After opening the holes to the right size it is very easy to press the nuts.

I use a “Channel lock: style of pliers on the edge of my work bench to press them in. Any piece of wood can be used to protect the face of the can.

I press them just slightly and check for alignment. At this point it is easy to rotate the nuts slightly if the hexagon is not properly aligned. The nuts will work even if the hex is not aligned, but it looks better if they line up with the edge.

See the pictures below for details.

[1969ivan1]

Thanks to Luis' brain we have another use for the FX cans. I have alimited number of Green, Black and Blue FX cans precut for the the FX Trieste and Titan project for no additional charge (limited time) http://www.thescubamuseum.com/products/ ... 20cans.htm

I also have the captured pressed nuts available http://www.thescubamuseum.com/products/ ... 20pics.htm Please help Luis to not have loose nuts!

Again thanks to all for the support!