Must See TV

[Nemrod]

Might want to go to your LDS and grab a copy of that pitiful PadI tripe of a magazine--Dive Training--because it has an artical about the 50 years of SeaHunt, Must See TV. Anyways, it might be fun to read, I grabbed a copy, they are usually free.

Nem

[kgehring]

They are free but not a PADI mag.

[Nemrod]

My bad then, still mostly tripe. The artical not so long ago about Oasis was pure fabrication, I been there and here is the pic on sonar. No town square or chruch, just some chunks of concrete and an outhouse-- .



This is what Mike would do to Dive Training if he were here today but he would like the cover, I will scan it later, good enough to frame.



Nem

[Nemrod]

Here it is, enjoy.




Nem

[JES]

Here's their website: Dive Training Magazine

They haven't updated the page to show the February edition that Nemrod is talking about.

And here's a link to some of their articles about Dive History

[Nemrod]

"When the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers flooded the valley upstream from Table Rock Dam, they submerged the small town of Oasis, Missouri. Like a modern, midwestern Atlantis, the town still sits under about 100 feet (30 m) of water. Advanced divers can float down Main Street to the town's small wooden church, which, although deteriorating after nearly 40 years underwater, offers wreck diving of a different order.

Treasures like Oasis make Table Rock Lake , which is a well-known Midwestern destination for topside water activities , a regional draw for scuba divers, many of whom travel hundreds of miles for open-water training dives for all certification levels. Training and diving in the lake has advantages, instructors say."

The above excerpt from Dive Training is considered by many to be mostly fabrication. I am not totally sure it is a fabrication but exhaustive efforts on my part have not turned up a sunken church or anything like it. The sonar scan above though is puzzling because when I dove that site I could not locate that booming square object, just a small square shed that just does not look the same. Oh well, mysteries of the deep that only Mike Nelson could solve, do, da, da,, dooooom.

Way back Skin Diver (1969) had an artical about the Valley of the Rays, a fabled valley in the Gulf (out of western coast Louisiana) with limestone ledges and corals and huge rays. It struck me as fantastic and for the 10 years I lived in Houston I bugged people who know the Gulf and even dove a few places and never found the Valley of the Rays, so, GPS coordinates for either Oasis or the Valley of the Rays will be appreciated or a blindfolded trip--either way. I think they was pulling our legs myself.

Nem

[capn_tucker]

Very cool for Dive Training to put the old Sea Hunt comics on the cover. I just got back from visiting a buddy who showed me this issue. The article inside isn't very long, but still interesting.
One thing the author said is probably true though. It may be heresy to say it, but as the author mentioned, Mike Nelson probably wouldn't last long with today's short attention span kids. He wasn't a superhero, couldn't travel back and forth in time etc etc; they'd surf on to the next channel in about 5 minutes.
The author also laments that Hollywood hasn't been able to do a decent diving show since Sea Hunt, and that there's nothing out there to encourage kids' to be interested in scuba diving...

[Bryan]

The above excerpt from Dive Training is considered by many to be mostly fabrication. I am not totally sure it is a fabrication but exhaustive efforts on my part have not turned up a sunken church or anything like it
Nem

Stone and Taney county Mo are my hood. I did my 1st dive in Table Rock Lake in 1978 and have done checkout dives as an instructor for more than 233 student from Indian Point, Enchanted Forest, Rock Pile, Jakes Point and the Dam……What James is saying is true….110% BS as far as I know….If you dive the Dam you can see a few pieces of railroad track and a coal car at the very end but that is it…..

[crimediver]

I have a sunken town in VA in Smith Mountain Lake. It is a flooded valley . I have dove there before doing body recovery. Pretty deep in most places. Crappy diving. Mostly flooded timber and entanglements. Impossible to run search lines or jackstays. 25 feet from shore you are in 100 feet of water. Not sure what could be found there as it is nothing but silt. The first 30 feet of your descent is nice and clear but then you start entering the tree tops of standing timber. After working your way down through the branches you hit lap piles of branches and leaves and silt.. .They can have it.

[Robohips77]

Nem, does your sonar take into account thermoclines? Maybe that big square box look is the ever elusive Gimbles treasure from the wreck of the Andrea Doria? Well it is early and my first cup of coffee has not taken off yet. I wonder.........

[Nemrod]

Well, if the treasure wound up in Table Rock Lake that would be quite the story .

Dive Training does have some good stuff and it is free. It also has some silly stuff and it is free. It also runs articles on "you must have a snorkel or you will die" and "wearing your mask on the forehead and you will surely die" type stuff which we of course all know means we should all be ghosts but it is still free so I guess that makes up for it. It also has some completely bogus article about non exixtent dive sites--- , but it is feee so what could we expect.

Yes that sonar will see thermoclines. The 60 foot thermocline is clearly visible in that scan.

Nem

[eskimo3883]

Hi Nimrod,

This is about as far away from vintage as you could get but can you mention the make, model of your Sonar, and a bit of its capabilities? Any favorite sonar pics?

[dhaas]

Amigos,

I saw this issue and grabbed a copy from a new dive store some friends have started. Same old, same old, recycled bits on Lloyd Bridges and Sea Hunt. Nothing new....

I wrote and supplied images to the first few issues of Dive Training way back when it started. The publisher and owners are nice guys, but come from the flying world and have multiple magazines in that genre, too.

Then they adopted what people describe as the PADI-isms and philosophies. Every step in diving is described and dissected to the nth degree......As in the stuff like you mention: "You'll die without a snorkel on your mask!"

HOWEVER, I get tired of the PADI-bashing, too. I've seen YMCA, NAUI, SSI, TDI / SDI, and whatever 4 letter certification you can name have crappy instructors. Comes down to the person teaching who knows enough how to use the standards and what will make someone a safe diver.

In fact at the store I mentioned, which became a NAUI store one instructor told me they still require one regulator buddy breathing in their curriculum! What a bunch of hogwash! I fought that kind of old brain dead stuff years ago when I taught scuba! Old school PADI dipwads wondering why we can't run Discover Scuba sessions in crappy cold Lake Erie or a murky quarry with thick wet suits, blah, blah, blah....Bunch of retards.....Then they wondered why diving was / still is declining. I'd like to hit them in the balls and ask them if it was fun? Makes about as much sense

99% of divers can barely find an octopus, much less master and then have to use standard buddy breathing in real world sport diving.

Which is why NAUI, however great some think this example may make them is a distant #4 or less in diving these days. Hell, 75% of the certifying organizations should close up shop and leave the business for what they contribute.

I do kind of like SDI (Scuba Diving International's) approach. Forget dive tables, dive a computer you actually know how to use and concentrate on teaching people real skills to be safe divers and enjoy it!

But hey, what the heck do I know?

Dhaas

[Nemrod]

Hi Nimrod,

This is about as far away from vintage as you could get but can you mention the make, model of your Sonar, and a bit of its capabilities? Any favorite sonar pics?

Hey, no it is not on topic but while dhass is promoting PadI I will go ahead and give you the dope on the sonar . It is an over the counter Humminbird 987c with Navionics charts. The 987 was discontinued and replaced with the 997c and 1197c and a compact 797c. All of these are down looking and side scanning sonar units. Don't listen to people tell you they don't work in saltwater or that they will not see beyond 100 feet--baloney. They work really good unless you have the US Navy on your payroll or at least 25,000 dollars to play with I doubt you will do much better. The huge new 1197c is to die for but alas it is to big for my little tub.

dhas, I am equal opportunity PadI basher, I don't like any of them anymore and PadI especially since it led the lemming charge to the dumming down of diving to the lowest common denominater. I really would prefer that diving lost the "vacation" persona and went back to push ups and swimming laps with 5 pound lead weights in each hand. Fewer divers--good--less destruction of the reef, more room for me and fellow vintage divers.

Nem <---proudly non-PC

[dhaas]

Ah, Nemrod,

In many ways you know you are preaching to the choir. Don't worry, sport diving is dying a slow agonizing death with Tech and other crazy things trying to keep it breathing Vintage interest won't help it either.....

PADI doesn't have 666 hidden in their manuals as the "devil child" of scuba. Laziness of the average American has done that. Would divers ever want to learn to scuba ala' military style training? Not likely.......No, make that NO FRIGGIN' WAY!!

Americans have become lazy, arrogant, stupid (just look for a YouTube clip I saw recently. I think it's titled "Americans aren't dumb, right?") and see how ignorant the average American is these days. Can't write, spell, read, find anything (including our own sates!) on a map or do anything except watch the idiot box.....Look at Bryan's latest dealings with an American manufacturer. They DESERVE to lose his business....

No to totally defend PADI, but as I mentioned in a previous post when they came out with PERFORMANCE based training it was great. But IMPLEMENTATION of it by instructors and the whole industry trying to survive means if Johnny and Jane are spending $3K in your store you pass them ("wink wink") and hope they don't drown.....

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Teach people 5 - 6 skills until they can do them well and you'll have created a good safe diver. Make them repeat them so they can do them in your sleep. Nothing more, nothing less is required......

* Mask Clearing (#1 and the cause of more panics than anything!)
* Regulator recovery (that means finding it when lost ) and clearing
* Buoyancy including proper weighting and breath control
* Efficient Fin Kicks, not killing the marine life most supposedly want to see underwater as the main reason to learn to dive.
* Monitoring AIR, depth and time. The last two best done these days with a computer. They're not "NEW" technology, they work and people just need to be shown how to use them.

So as we blissfully swim around in our 1960 -1970s or so gear hopefully doing all of these things well enjoy it. Because you all might be buying a compressor for yourself in the next decade the way things are going.....

But I hope not !

dhaas

P.S. - Oh yeah, all 100 or so Vintage Divers in the USA on this and other boards is going to support diving anywhere except our back yards? No divers = no resorts = no compressors = no tanks and boats to take us out to those reefs, etc. , etc., etc.

All in Fun discussion of course !!!