DA/RAM Hybrid Question

[WD8CDH]

Just to clarify things, will a RAM nozzle and guts fit and work properly in a DA body?

Thanks

You can not replace just part of the assembly, but if you are referring about replacing the complete first stage body with all its appropriate internal parts the answer is yes.

The only difference between an Aqua Master and a Royal Aqua Master is the first stage. But, the complete first stage has to be replaced as a unit, including the push pin.

That is why when you replace the first stage assembly with a Phoenix first stage you no longer have a DA Aqua Master (no mater what the label reads) you now have a Royal Aqua Master or more accurately a Phoenix Royal Aqua Master.


Does this answer your question?

By first stage body, do you mean the part that you have 17 of lined up in a row in your bottom picture a few posts above along with all of the seats, springs etc. inside, yes, that does answer the question.

Thanks,

[Bryan]

The DA nozzle is shorter than the Royal Aqua-Master nozzle. So I dont see any way you can cram ALL the RAM parts into a DA nozzle, they just won't fit......Many people have tried to put a RAM high pressure seat in a DA nozzle and it just won't work....You must have ALL the RAM parts in a nozzle to make it function as a balanced 1st stage....At least the way USD designed it.

[luis]

I hope I didn’t confused things by using the term “first stage body” for the “first stage nozzle”. The first stage body and nozzle is the same thing.

I prefer to call it first stage body just because I think is more descriptive of the actual function…just like I call the orifice the volcano orifice, because it looks like the top of a volcano. I am sorry if I confuse anyone in my attempt to make it clearer.

And yes they are the screw in part that screws on the back of the “main body” and holds the yoke. And all the first stage parts go inside.

Bryan has US Divers original diagrams (for the DA Aqua Master, the Royal Aqua Master, etc.) in the down load section. It probably would be better if I referred to the names and part number given by US Divers, but that would be just too easy.

[WD8CDH]

I have the manuals, and even the different manuals don't name things consistantly.

I guess the answer is what I suspected, you can stick items 5 thru 15 from a model 1079-00 Royal Aqua-Master into a DA main body as long as you replace all of them.

Can I assume that RAM items 5 thru 12 are the same as Conshelf 14?

Are any of the RAM items 16 thru 28 interchangable with DA or Conshelf parts?

Thanks,

[WD8CDH]

I am curious as to where the extra .1 inch is. I suspect that if you put a RAM first stage on a DA, the DA yoke would have .1" more movement at ir's collar.

[Bryan]

I am curious as to where the extra .1 inch is. I suspect that if you put a RAM first stage on a DA, the DA yoke would have .1" more movement at ir's collar.

RAM nozzle is longer/taller/has more overall lenght that the DA nozzle. Bodies are the same on RAM and DA. Yokes are the same either short or long for either regulator. Please see the information below for further clarification....

http://www.vintagedoublehose.com/forum/ ... php?t=1948

http://www.vintagedoublehose.com/forum/ ... php?t=2140

[Bryan]

I have the manuals, and even the different manuals don't name things consistantly.

I guess the answer is what I suspected, you can stick items 5 thru 15 from a model 1079-00 Royal Aqua-Master into a DA main body as long as you replace all of them.

THEY WILL NOT FIT!!!!!! There is not enough space to cram 5 pounds of potatoes in a 4 pound sack

Can I assume that RAM items 5 thru 12 are the same as Conshelf 14?

Yes. other than the length of the pin they are identical

Are any of the RAM items 16 thru 28 interchangable with DA or Conshelf parts?

Yes many of the parts are exactly the same for both regulators


Thanks,

[WD8CDH]

I guess the answer is what I suspected, you can stick items 5 thru 15 from a model 1079-00 Royal Aqua-Master into a DA main body as long as you replace all of them.

THEY WILL NOT FIT!!!!!! There is not enough space to cram 5 pounds of potatoes in a 4 pound sack


Thanks,

I am confused, isn't item 13 the 5 pound sack we need for all of the potatoes.

[Bryan]

If you are trying to make a joke, great HA HA.

If you still don't seriously understand why one can't be made into the other after all the information that Luis and I have provided you, why don't you give me a call or E-mail me and I'll continue trying to help you.

[WD8CDH]

Well, sort of but isn't items 5 thru 15 the entire balanced first stage inclding the first stage body (RAM nozzle) which should screw into a DA main body casting?

[Bryan]

There is no difference in the bodies on either the RAM or DA....You can screw either nozzle into the same body....

If I was swimming along with my DA Aqua-Master and I found a complete RAM nozzle assembly lying on the bottom I could go to my car, get out my tools and in a very short time put the RAM nozzle that I found right into my DA and then it would become a RAM. First I would unscrew the complete nozzle assembly from my DA Aqua-Master (unbalance 1st stage) and then I would screw in the complete assembled RAM nozzle (balanced 1st stage) Notice how I never took out the internal parts of the nozzle....I didn't need to BECAUSE THE PARTS DO NOT INTERCHANGE BETWEEN NOZZLES ...Both regulators use the exact same bodies, the exact same yokes, knobs, etc....That is why I made the video because many people have purchased RAM that have the right sticker or label on them but in the end turn out to have a DA nozzle in it.


RAM nozzle DA parts inside......WILL NOT WORK
DA nozzle with RAM parts inside .....WILL NOT WORK

Put RAM nozzle parts in DA nozzle Join Davey Jones
Put DA nozzle parts in RAM nozzle Join Davey Jones

[WD8CDH]

Hi Bryan,

That was exactly what I thought all along. I guess we just weren't using the same names for all of the parts. That's why I used item numbers from the RAM manual in my posts.

When I first asked, I was refering to the DA body as the big chromed casting that everything attaches to, not the little unbalanced DA nozzle body that the first stage valve parts fit in.

[WD8CDH]

It looks like the real limiting factor of using RAM seat, spring and spring block parts in a DA first stage nozzle body is the volcano orifice diameter is too different and would actually cause the first stage to be way OVER-balanced.

[luis]

It looks like the real limiting factor of using RAM seat, spring and spring block parts in a DA first stage nozzle body is the volcano orifice diameter is too different and would actually cause the first stage to be way OVER-balanced.

And…as we discussed, you would also have to add a support tube (ID= 0.459”, OD= 0.498”, Length = 0.456”) to hold the spring block in place plus you would not be able to have a filter (at least nothing thicker than 0.005” to 0.010” max).

Yes, the show stopper is the volcano orifice size will not match the seat stem and balancing chamber. But, IMHO, there are several reasons why it is not worth even trying it. It has been tried before…and it doesn’t work as intended.


The Phoenix was the final evolution of my early design concepts of creating a simple way of converting an Aqua Master into a Royal Aqua Master. Not just because the Royal is a better balanced first stage, but because parts for the Royal will be available for as long as Aqua Lung continues to use that basic design. It looks like a long…long time.

I also made drawings of an exact reproduction of the RAM nozzle, but it was too expensive to manufacture. At the bottom is has a pressed in washer making it a more complicated multi-process assembly operation. Not a big deal in mass production, but it doesn’t lend itself to make in a small production.

[Bryan]