assign the age to an SA CG-45?

[eskimo3883]

Hi,

I have a Scaphandre Autonome (SA) type CG-45 with a serial number of 2984 (clearly hand stamped). Unlike US diver regulators I have not been able to find a source to establish the age of a CD-45 from its serial number. According to HDS Vol 13 Issue 1 the SA CG-45 was produced from 1947 to 1957. Can anyone tell me how to assign the age to an SA CG-45?

I have compared the can to the earliest US diver can I have (51-52 Red label). In comparing the CG-45 can to the can from the Red Label they differ in four ways. The screw threads on the CG-45 are metric while the red label threads are not. Although both have a 25 mm removable horn the horns are not interchangeable because the distance between the horn screws differ by 0.005". (the screws on the CG-45 are closer together by 0.005"). Both cans have 14 holes punched into the can wall but the red label holes are spaced 0.004” farther apart. The CG-45 is shiny chrome while the red label is satin chrome.

[Bryan]

This is where the expertise of guys like Phil come in....Oh and BTW. We would like to see pictures of the regulator in question please.

[eskimo3883]

Hi Bryan,

One obvious difference between my early US diver reg is the first stage. The bonze Allen key insert, used in US Diver regs to change the first stage spring tension, is not part of at least my CG-45 design. My can does not have a flat spot (a.k.a. tank cut out). I have seen another SN 2000 series CG45 without a tank cut out. I have seen two SN 4000 series CG45s that did have a tank cut out. Both of these 4000 series regs had reg labels upside down while the two SN 2000 series had labels right side up. I suspect very early ones had flat brass label rivets while mine are copper.

I have a series of pics from a partial tear down but they are going to be large. Should I just put them in Photobucket?

[eskimo3883]

I posted a few pics of my CG45 on Photobucket.com. The link is below:

CLICK HERE FOR PICTURES



Notice the first stage does not have an insert for adjusting the spring tension. From Phil's HDS article it is somewhere between 1947 and 1957. I would love to hear from anyone who can help point out the actual year of manufacture.

[Bryan]

Amazing stuff! Thank you for posting them! Hopefully Phil can help you date it now.....There are so many different and unusual things about those regulators. Please post more when you can.

[standingup]

Really nice pics - Thanks

[Phil]

Hi, Bryan!
Did a long reply on dating Eskimo's very nice CG45 and then saw 'file' BELOW the message body box - didnt notice the (very obvious) "add an attatchment" heading, so I typed in 'very nice CG45' as the file name and pushed 'submit' below the attachment box (with nothing in the attachment box) No sign of anything when I went back to the forum. Gone forever?? lurking in the ether??Can you have a look?
Oh, me . . .
P.

[Bryan]

Phil it's gone, nothing kept on my end... The add attachment is for photos only. If you typed something in MS Word or Open Office you can just cut copy paste the text into a normal reply section like this one. Looking forward to reading about the regulator. Thank you.

[Phil]

Hi, Eskimo!
Very nice classic CG45! Congrats - good that it has found a home with some one who appreciates these things. I would date it in a range from late 1948 to early 1950 - but most likely 1949. This is not just by the serial number but by the style - you'll remember that there were 4 styles of CG45 available in France in 1949; the 20mm hose horn 'sport' model, the 25mm hose horn 'militaire'(threaded to be adaptable to the 'phoque' - the Cousteau constant-volume suit) and a non-threaded 25mm version, and the 25mm 'Narghile' surface-supplied, second stage model.
The 1949 tag reads 'SA' (societe anonyme) replacing the previous SARL tag (reponsibilite limitee) This one is a short horn SA and looks to be in pretty good shape for its years. The 'bec de canard' (duckbill) is not original - but the originals were tan gum and were pretty short-lived. I note that the hinge pin is not in place in the inside shots but that could be for pics? If you don't have it, they're easy to make and I can provide a pattern of the proper form. Check out the box clips and see if they have a circle on the outside 'knuckle' of the clip. That's usually pre-'50 but French repair guys had old stock, so you some times see one or two on a later reg. The hoses and the safety mouthpiece are right for the time and, all in all, a fine looking assembly.
Regards
P.

[eskimo3883]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the help in dating the reg. I was hoping to squeak by with something in the forties. No circles on my box clips. I do have the hinge pin. Not sure it is the original. It looks just like a US Divers 1953 exept the end is yet to be folded over to lock it in place as it is in my 1953. That might just be someone’s preference. Since they made these up to ‘56 or ‘57 can you tell me what are clues for a later date? Is there a year when they put in a tank cut-out on the rear can? Did they ever put a lip on the horn, or make the horn a bit longer?

The CG short horns have a small notch. I noticed these mate up with the fitting used on threaded hose ends of later French regs. I have a spare rear can with a tank cut out and a short horn. It looks just like an early 1953 US Diver except it has the notched horn like the CG45. Is there any other reg that would have a notch? Is this can a later CG45?

Something I find odd is my CG valve bracket is slightly magnetic.

[Phil]

Hi,Eskimo!
The notch on the short horn is to index the key which would be silver-soldered onto the horn at the same time that the thread ring was soldered on (to make this a 'militaire) The non-threaded, 'clamp on' 'short' horns were usually just the 'militaire' sans threads. The longer horns were specifically intended for clamp-on hoses. Spiro made and sold both. Likely the short one was used if they were in-between clamp-on production runs - or if they had lots of short'uns left . . . certainly not an exact science. Beaded horns were around in the late 40's - the 20mm horn was beaded (ridged), for example - but a beaded 25mm could not be used for a 'militaire' so the 25mm's (short or long) were left smooth as were the early USD horns. USD and Spiro had their own dies and they are quite distinctive - but the confusing part comes when either France or US needed some number of cans to complete an order - they would ship them back and forth! I have a couple of early DA's that I know were bought from USD but the cans/horn were made with the French dies. The USD models to keep your eyes open for were the pre Bastion/Blessing dies (the 'square' press on the horns, for example)
When I finish up part two of the Gagnan monograph - I intend to show a bunch of these distinquishing features - But it seems like the older I get, the busier I get ( hmmm . . . or maybe it just seems that way because of decreasing mental capability! (G)
P.

[eskimo3883]

Hi Phil,

Really looking forward to part two of your Gagnan monograph. The first one was one-of-a-kind and well worth my HDS subscription.