The trouble with Vintage

[luis]

This kind of discussion belongs over on Scuba Board....

I don’t think it was that bad… this was a “friendly educated and intelligent” discussion comparing the merits of new versus old.

We didn’t take it that far… just kidding

[Nemrod]

One thing that bugs me about using my shiny, happy RAMs is getting saltwater on them. As soon as I got home I began taking them apart and the DA as well since it saw a bunch of saltwater use this trip. Well, maybe it was the freshwater rinse we gave them at various locations but they were clean, clean, clean and clean. You forget sometimes that once before these things were prized pocessions they actually lived in the ocean, were used and abused and thrown in the bag wet and most lived to tell their story to us. Really, my double hose units are far less trouble prone and far less sensitive to not getting a good cleaning than all the other single hose stuff I have. In part it is the sealed case, in part it is the lack of O-rings, in part it was robust/smart design. In any case, the truth is, your double hose regulator does not need any special attention, we give them that extra attention because we want them to last forever. They are not a consumable commodity, a throw away plastic regulator like the stuff we buy today. That is why I fret over mine and keep them so clean, not because they won't function if I don't but because I see the long term benifit of good maintenance. AND, with Bryan's offer to clean your regulaotrs for SDIII participants--did I hear that right---heck why not. Just don't send him a tank to tumble!
There is something about having 30 year plus old equipment that functions perfectly and looks brand new and the guy beside you with brand new stuff leaking and popping and wheezing and all banged up and he is telling you that you need a safety diver? Huh? Did all this redundancy stuff get started because people want greater safety or did it come to be because of the failure prone nature of todays "high tech" "life support" equipment? Did double hose regulators go away because they needed so little work and had no need for all the add on stuff that the dive shop buisnesses and PadI could not make a buck. Gotta make the public think they need it.
Nemrod

[oldmossback]

"Did double hose regulators go away because they needed so little work and had no need for all the add on stuff that the dive shop buisnesses and PadI could not make a buck"

James

It's not unheard of in the business world......in 1937 Harley Davidson came out with their new overhead valve engine..affectionate name was the 'Knuckle Head'............all iron and steel parts.....

Problem,,,,,iron heads and harden steel lifters don't wear out very quickly...there fore......no maintenance so to speak.....dealerships and garages started to scream as older Harleys and all other bikes of that time required lots and lots of TLC maintenance and the new "Knuckle Head didn't".......spare heads and valves etc, were not selling well as they were not wearing out very quickly.......

So, what did HD do? Came out in the late 40's with the Pan Head, aluminum head, softer lifters etc........touted as better than the "HEAVY" iron Knuckle........HD's needed more frequent maintenance again, business and commerce was appeased........customers paid.....

I'm sure there are other stories about other machines that followed the same path as does the doublehose and Harley Davidson.........

[vintagemike6]

i have to say a big AMEN to nemrods statements about taking proper care of these great double hose regulators. rinse them well, rinse them often and they will be around for another 50 years. i will be diving with a RAM in bonaire next week and i won't be thinking twice about my RAM delivering pure balanced air at any depth, and of course complemented with a broxton chuck stainless banjo!
the pictures of the dangerous monkey river look great. i hope to be in attendce next year.
mike

[dhaas]

I have to comment on rinsing after salt water dives, constant taking apart and re-assembling regulators......I've never understood this with Vintage regs, modern regs, or even my UW camera systems.

All this stuff is designed to go significant intervals with minimal "maintenance" in the OCEAN environment...And there is where differences abound. What one diver calls "maintenance" (rinsing, drying and using) another would consider abominable for a 30-50 year old reg!

I rinse ANY reg in fresh water and dry. Maybe if super sandy conditions (think Alexander Spring after 20+ divers paddled around in it!) I might pop off areas where sand might cause a leak. Anything else? Fugetta' 'bout it!

I think just likes cars, cameras, lawn mowers or whatever people just like to take apart and re-assmeble stuff to fill in time or that's what tehy're intrigued by. If that's what flips your trigger, DO IT!

But me, I just want to dive my regs !!! Then get a complete overhaul when it's time.....

Your Mileage May Vary

Dave Haas

[JES]

I have to comment on rinsing after salt water dives, constant taking apart and re-assembling regulators......I've never understood this with Vintage regs, modern regs, or even my UW camera systems.

All this stuff is designed to go significant intervals with minimal "maintenance" in the OCEAN environment...And there is where differences abound. What one diver calls "maintenance" (rinsing, drying and using) another would consider abominable for a 30-50 year old reg!

I rinse ANY reg in fresh water and dry. Maybe if super sandy conditions (think Alexander Spring after 20+ divers paddled around in it!) I might pop off areas where sand might cause a leak. Anything else? Fugetta' 'bout it!

I think just likes cars, cameras, lawn mowers or whatever people just like to take apart and re-assmeble stuff to fill in time or that's what tehy're intrigued by. If that's what flips your trigger, DO IT!

But me, I just want to dive my regs !!! Then get a complete overhaul when it's time.....

Your Mileage May Vary

Dave Haas

Dave,

Your thoughts are spoken with true wisdom!

To which the congregation all said “Amen!”

[captain]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Constant dis-assembly and re-assembly after ever use can cause wear and problems in and of itself.

[YankDownUnder]

As a young teenager it took a lot of hours of working after school to earn the money for my scuba gear. Taking care of it was a necessity.

I learned a trick, which has served me through the years. When I came home from a dive, I would soak all of my gear in fresh water for several hours. My 6 year old brother had a canvas pool and all of my gear went in it. He used to breathe from my Heinke twin hose regulator in about 8 inches of water, and pretend he was a diver. That further rinsed the regulator parts. The pool was in the shade, because sunburns are a real problem in Australia. I dried everything in the shade and covered rubber parts with pure talcum once they were dry. My gear was never allowed to dry in the sun.

My dive buddy did not pay much attention to his gear and the rubber and neoprene parts perished. There was also corrosion from electrolysis between the different metals. My gear always look good and was the same age as my buddy's.

Now I use a plastic storage bin to carry my gear. When I get back from a dive, I fill the bin with freash water from the hose and let it soak. I sometimes use a very small amount of liquid soap, but rinse that away too. When the bin is put away with the dry gear in it, the lid is left off, so trapped moisture can get out.

While it is true that: "if it ain't broke don't fix it" often applies, good maintenance is common sense.

[duckbill]

Now I use a plastic storage bin to carry my gear. When I get back from a dive, I fill the bin with freash water from the hose and let it soak. I sometimes use a very small amount of liquid soap, but rinse that away too. When the bin is put away with the dry gear in it, the lid is left off, so trapped moisture can get out.

This is almost exactly what I do. I have one large plastic bin which I partially fill with water, another, smaller bin or two inside also partially filled, and one filled water bottle. I NEVER assume the outdoor showers will be operating at the beaches. If they are, I'll shower with all my gear still on.
Then, after I take off my gear I rinse the more valuable and critical gear in the large bin and give a final rinse from the water bottle. Then I stow all the gear in the bins for the ride home, with the wetsuit in the large bin. I take the hoses off the regulator and install the yoke plug, give it a fresh water rinse inside and out and it, too goes in it's own bin with a little water in the botom. Gauges, mask, hoses, etc. are also in water for the trip home. The idea is to keep everything wet so crystals don't form, and rinsed of as much salt as possible.
Once home, of course, thorough rinsing and drying.

It sounds like a pain, but once you get used to a system it doesn't take all that much longer. This vintage gear, especially, won't last forever, but I intend to be around for a while and still use the same gear for decades to come.

[duckbill]

Why does the quote feature only work some of the time lately?