502Diver
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New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:12 pm

A neighbor recently gave me her dad’s old steel 72 and DA AquaMaster (round label with long yoke). I was blown away when she dropped it off because I was just expecting a free tank. I have no previous experience with vintage gear, so I come to you humbly asking for help. I’ve been through the forums, but I’m having a hard time weighing my options. This gear has been sitting in a garage for 20+ years and needs a full rebuild (I’d like to do it myself).

On the the questions:

1. Can the DA AquaMaster be dove with a modern bp/w? I’ve seen several recommendations for the VDH backlate, but is there a reason I couldn’t use my existing plate? I have enough clearance with a single tank adapter.

2. Since this will not be my “go-to” reg, I’d like to keep the rebuild cost within reason, but still dive with an SPG. That leaves the options of a banjo fitting or a Phoenix 1st stage upgrade. From a cost standpoint, which route would be better? How much length does the Phoenix add to the reg (valve to front of can)? Will a banjo fitting work with modern tank valves?

3. The tank doesn’t appear to have a liner and very little rust, I dropped it off with my local shop to have a VIP/Hydro. The shop owner said it wasn’t worth putting back into service and recommended I buy a used AL80. I prefer the buoyancy characteristics of a steel tank, but is there merit to his comments about the cost to get it divable again vs buying an AL80? What are the opinions on replacing the J valve with a modern DIN/conversion valve vs servicing the J valve?

Thank you in advance for any insight you could offer. This gear is about 20 years older than I am, but I love the history of it.

Thanks,
Tim

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:35 pm

502Diver wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:12 pm
A neighbor recently gave me her dad’s old steel 72 and DA AquaMaster (round label with long yoke). I was blown away when she dropped it off because I was just expecting a free tank. I have no previous experience with vintage gear, so I come to you humbly asking for help. I’ve been through the forums, but I’m having a hard time weighing my options. This gear has been sitting in a garage for 20+ years and needs a full rebuild (I’d like to do it myself).

On the the questions:

1. Can the DA AquaMaster be dove with a modern bp/w? Yes.I’ve seen several recommendations for the VDH backlate, but is there a reason I couldn’t use my existing plate? Yes. The VDH plate is designed to place the cans right next to your back between your shoulder blades for optimal breathing performance. Other modern backplates put the cans too far off your back. I have enough clearance with a single tank adapter. That's the problem. That "clearance" will put the cans too high and too far off your back.

2. Since this will not be my “go-to” reg, I’d like to keep the rebuild cost within reason, but still dive with an SPG. That leaves the options of a banjo fitting or a Phoenix 1st stage upgrade. From a cost standpoint, which route would be better? Cost standpoint: banjo,How much length does the Phoenix add to the reg (valve to front of can)? Some, but with a VDH plate (or no plate and just vintage harness) you shouldn't have an issue.Will a banjo fitting work with modern tank valves? Mostly, yes.

3. The tank doesn’t appear to have a liner and very little rust, I dropped it off with my local shop to have a VIP/Hydro. The shop owner said it wasn’t worth putting back into service and recommended I buy a used AL80. Find a new shop not run by a dufus. A inexpensive tumble will fix the rust issue right up - unless it's just flash rust then there will likely be no issue at all. I prefer the buoyancy characteristics of a steel tank, but is there merit to his comments about the cost to get it divable again vs buying an AL80? No.What are the opinions on replacing the J valve with a modern DIN/conversion valve vs servicing the J valve?As long as it is a 3/4" neck there are plenty of inexpensive good used valves out there (even 1/2" tapered valves). J-vales are pretty easy to overhaul. you can always disable it if you don't plan on using it. Valve works fine without it.

Thank you in advance for any insight you could offer. This gear is about 20 years older than I am, but I love the history of it.

Thanks,
Tim
My 2 psi above.
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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Chris
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:50 pm

If your keeping it mostly stock, I would install the Cyclone first stage, silicone hose loop and diapgram, probably the duck bill eliminator. To do the Phoenix first stage, your half way to the cost of a Kraken. Keep in mind your original yoke is probably only rated for 2250psi even though the Cyclone is rated for anything modern. Someone on here knows what newer yoke you can swap it out with. Then you could run it on any modern high preasure tank if so desired. Someone can put me in my place if my numbers are wrong.

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502Diver
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:53 pm

Thanks ScubaLawyer. Just to clarify, I can use a modern bp/w but it just won’t be the “optimal” set up? How does the location of the can impact performance?

Only asking since I won’t be buying a new plate as this setup likely won’t be used all that often. I do have a vintage harness as well, but being new to this, it still feels odd to dive without a BC (even if that’s how it used to be).


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Chris
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:58 pm

Once you get used to weighting right without that parachute dragging around behind you.....

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502Diver
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New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:58 pm

tripplec wrote:If your keeping it mostly stock, I would install the Cyclone first stage, silicone hose loop and diapgram, probably the duck bill eliminator. To do the Phoenix first stage, your half way to the cost of a Kraken. Keep in mind your original yoke is probably only rated for 2250psi even though the Cyclone is rated for anything modern. Someone on here knows what newer yoke you can swap it out with. Then you could run it on any modern high preasure tank if so desired. Someone can put me in my place if my numbers are wrong.

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Thanks tripplec. Assuming my steel 72 checks out and passes hydro, tank pressure shouldn’t be an issue for the original yoke. I like the idea of mostly stock, I was just a bit surprised by the price of a banjo fitting. The 2 that I found were $65 and $56, is that a typical price?

Between the banjo cost and the other parts, would it be better to go with the Phoenix?


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Chris
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:59 pm

That would be why I dont own one

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Nemrod
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:01 pm

A technical plate as is commonly used today, the kind that is intended for a double set and often used with a STA for a single tank, will not work very well at all for a double hose regulator. It will place the regulator diaphragm much too far from your lung's diaphragm. Proper position, between the center of the shoulder blades:

Image

Regulator DH vs SH position sensitivity:

Image

An aluminum 64 will dive much like a steel 72, girth aside. I would rebuild the regulator with a new diaphragm, cage valves, HPR conversion and just enjoy it as is for the time. No BC needed in shallow and warm water, because you will not being wearing rubber blubber and 30 pounds of lead to compensate for with a BC.

And tell the dive shop fellow to hydro the 72.

James (aka Nemrod of the Deep)

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Chris
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:02 pm

If can is low on your back it breathes in easy out hard. If the can is hitting you in the back of your head, breaths in hard out easy. I think. The vintage plate allows you to drop it down without loosening your shoulder straps and locking the tank town with a crotch strap.

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Chris
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:09 pm

502Diver wrote:
tripplec wrote:If your keeping it mostly stock, I would install the Cyclone first stage, silicone hose loop and diapgram, probably the duck bill eliminator. To do the Phoenix first stage, your half way to the cost of a Kraken. Keep in mind your original yoke is probably only rated for 2250psi even though the Cyclone is rated for anything modern. Someone on here knows what newer yoke you can swap it out with. Then you could run it on any modern high preasure tank if so desired. Someone can put me in my place if my numbers are wrong.

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Thanks tripplec. Assuming my steel 72 checks out and passes hydro, tank pressure shouldn’t be an issue for the original yoke. I like the idea of mostly stock, I was just a bit surprised by the price of a banjo fitting. The 2 that I found were $65 and $56, is that a typical price?

Between the banjo cost and the other parts, would it be better to go with the Phoenix?


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I have one stock, one cyclone, one phoenix, one Kraken. Just depends on what you feel like at the time I guess. If I did it again, I would rebuild one as stock as I could like Nemrod said, and if you love it then buy the Kraken.

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502Diver
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:10 pm

Nemrod wrote:A technical plate as is commonly used today, the kind that is intended for a double set and often used with a STA for a single tank, will not work very well at all for a double hose regulator. It will place the regulator diaphragm much too far from your lung's diaphragm. Proper position, between the center of the shoulder blades:

Image

Regulator DH vs SH position sensitivity:

Image

An aluminum 64 will dive much like a steel 72, girth aside. I would rebuild the regulator with a new diaphragm, cage valves, HPR conversion and just enjoy it as is for the time. No BC needed in shallow and warm water, because you will not being wearing rubber blubber and 30 pounds of lead to compensate for with a BC.

And tell the dive shop fellow to hydro the 72.

James (aka Nemrod of the Deep)
Thank you for the info. Sounds like I’ll be using the DH with the vintage harness and no wing. SPG would be preferred, but with the cost of the banjo it might be best to roll without and keep the dive short and shallow.


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Chris
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:24 pm

The book regulator Savvy is your friend, and there are also some videos on YouTube on working on regulators

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Chris
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:25 pm

As well as all of us on here willing to answer questions along the way

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502Diver
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:41 pm

tripplec wrote:As well as all of us on here willing to answer questions along the way

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I appreciate the insights. Any thoughts on Vance Harlow’s “Regulator Maintenance and Repair”? I’ve heard this and “Regulator Savvy” are great, but I have yet to pick up either of them.


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Chris
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Re: New to Vintage Double Hose: Mass Confusion

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:42 pm

Bolth are on my shelf

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