LloydS
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Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:17 pm

Yippie! I have now have a Kraken on order due to arrive near the end of the year, 2019!

Next order of business: Backplate, Wings, and Harness

1. Backplate: I would immediately choose the "Argonaut Universal Back Plate for Double Hose Regulators", but with my hero, Bryan being so cramped for time, I thought I better look elsewhere since all 3 of the Argonaut backplates have been sold out for some time. So does anyone know if this 6mm, 10 lb, Sub-Gravity backplate would work with the Kraken, enabling me to position the main body of the Kraken (are we calling that the "can"?) between my shoulder blades? (They also have it in 3mm, but weighing in at 300+ lbs myself, I need the extra weight of the 6mm backplate). So does anyone have any idea if that backplate would work? Or maybe someone knows of another backplate which would be preferable?

2. Wings: Needing about 36 pounds of weight to properly submerge, I also need wings with a lot of lift to keep my head above water when I surface. I wonder if the "Argonaut Wing #35" would work for me, and if they would work with the Sub-Gravity backplate mentioned above?

3. Harness: Being a heavyweight, I really like having the guys on the boat lift my tank and rig up onto the boat so I can merrily climb the ladder onto the boat much more easily. To that end, I really need a quick release on at least one of my shoulders straps to be able to easily take off my tank, wings, and reg, like one can do with a jacket style BCD's quick release. So which harness would enable me to have the "can" between my shoulder blades, would have a quick release on the shoulder strap, and have enough length in the webbing to fit my 54 inch waist? One would hope that maybe the DIR Harness Assembly shown here: https://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/ ... ry=1874499 , might work, but I've never dived with a backplate/wing/harness rig, so I would be most appreciative for input that might help me choose the right stuff. Thanks!


-Lloyd Stewart, 67 yrs old, diver since 1962 where, at 10 yrs of age at a YMCA camp, we used double hose regulators. Certified in 1969, NAUI Instructor in the mid-70's, but haven't taught since 1980. Now enjoy underwater photography strictly in warm, clear, wetsuit-free water, while simultaneously encouraging my 3 beloved granddaughters to discover the wonders of the underwater world.

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2THDIVR
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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:11 am

Lloyd

This is what you need
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Double ... Sw2Rddtulb
Being sold by forum member, great deal
For your need to exit the harness add a weight belt buckle to one of the shoulder straps.
Using a plate designed for doubles will place the tank higher off your back and might not allow you to get the reg. low enough for best performance.

Scott

LloydS
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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:01 am

11/17/19

Whew! Thank you Scott!!! I purchased the rig you recommended off eBay! Possibly the only remaining "Argonaut Universal Back Plate for Double Hose Regulators" up for sale in the world at the moment. What a relief to finally find one, with the harness and wings included! I couldn't be happier!

Also, thanks for this tip, "For your need to exit the harness add a weight belt buckle to one of the shoulder straps."

I hadn't thought of that. Great idea! I'll do it.

I guess my last order of business before actually going diving is to figure out how to attach 36 pounds of weight to the rig. (Yes, believe it or not I recently got back from Cozumel and that's how much weight I actually needed just to be neutral) I had hoped the backplate would be heavier, but it's very light (1 lb 5 oz). And someone told me that a simple weight belt would NOT be a good idea because then you'd have two buckles at your waist (the harness buckle and the weight belt buckle).

So if you or anyone has a suggestion for what to use to carry that large amount of weight (36 lbs), or how to distribute it, or a link to pockets or whatever, I'd be most appreciative.

Thanks so much!

-Lloyd Stewart

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:02 am

LloydS wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:01 am
11/17/19

So if you or anyone has a suggestion for what to use to carry that large amount of weight (36 lbs), or how to distribute it, or a link to pockets or whatever, I'd be most appreciative.

Thanks so much!

-Lloyd Stewart

I use 36 lb for my drysuit. The only way I've found to carry that much weight comfortably is with a weight harness. Hard to beat the one made by DUI. Link below photo. Good luck and welcome to the VDH Forum and the Kraken Klub. :) Mark

Image

https://www.divedui.com/products/weight ... 4118475841
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:27 pm

Mark, is that DUI harness still the weed eater line one or did they upgrade? The weight pockets on my Deep Outdoors one is starting to wear out. Thx

Jim

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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:39 pm

swimjim wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:27 pm
Mark, is that DUI harness still the weed eater line one or did they upgrade? The weight pockets on my Deep Outdoors one is starting to wear out. Thx

Jim
Not sure. Mine is the old style with the cord that reaches all the way around. Looks like the new ones have independent releases.
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:49 pm

you mentioned: And someone told me that a simple weight belt would NOT be a good idea because then you'd have two buckles at your waist (the harness buckle and the weight belt buckle).

You can eliminate some confusion by turning your weight belt buckle to opposite direction of your Scuba harness waist buckle. I always use right hand for opening weight belt. Works fine for me and I always know which one to pull with which hand.

Some divers use different type of buckles on each so they can tell difference by feel, but with heavy gloves that may not always be immediately apparent in an emergency.
The older I get the better I was.

LloydS
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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:55 pm

11/18/19

Thanks again for your help guys! For the most part, it's a real wasteland out there when it comes to trying to get help from scuba shop workers. Double hose regulator information is almost unknown, and heaven help you if you want to talk about how you can achieve proper placement using a backplate. Just the concept is most difficult for anyone to even process. I usually I end up showing folks a picture. Otherwise, minds simply tend to go blank. Reminds me of when I recently asked my young niece who Sammy Davis, Jr. was. She said, "I think he was a baseball player?"

Anyway, thank heavens for this forum and Alec Pierce!

I was very pleased to find out about the DUI "Weight Trim Classic," which seems like the best choice for carrying lots of weight.

Now, have I got this order correct? If I want to exit the water gear free (except for my mask and the DUI jacket):
1. Pull the DUI right and left weight pocket handles (using the right hand for the right side,and left hand for the left side, and NOT cross-handedly, and hand those up to the deck crew. (I kinda hate to do that since re-threading the weight pockets back into the jacket can be a pain, but oh well)
2. Remove the main tank/wing/harness gear and hand that up to the deck crew by the shoulder strap so they won't grab onto the "Can".
3. Remove my fins and fling those up on the boat, since the deck crew will likely be tired of dealing with me by this point. (LOL)
4. Still struggle to climb up the ladder

Well, I'm at the "old man, but still scuba diving" age and I'm making a list of things that can help weakening old men continue to scuba dive, despite the fact that some young, healthy, strapping divemasters/dive helpers sometimes appear to have a "roll your eyes" attitude about us. Here's my first five things:

1. A rolling mesh bag.
2. Lightweight gear.
3. A DUI "Weight Trim Classic" instead of the standard weight belt.
4. Boats that are easy to get in and out of, like where you can walk directly onto a boat from a pier without having to take that giant downward step onto a knee that was injured long ago by some unwise skateboarding decisions. The Scuba Club Cozumel boats have that setup....which is nice. (Please let me know about any other locations where that situation exists!)
5. Boats that have a permanent"easy to exit the water" ladder, and not those moveable "fast boat ladders" that just hang off the side of a boat. (I once made my grandkids laugh when fatso grandpa was climbing out of the water on one of those ladders, only to reach the top when a big wave hit the boat and sent me flying backwards into the water. (It was pretty funny......and I may have exaggerated things a little when I was falling.....for effect. Hey, I'm not completely incapacitated!)

Thanks again guys!

Lloyd Stewart

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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:35 pm

2. Remove the main tank/wing/harness gear and hand that up to the deck crew by the shoulder strap so they won't grab onto the "Can".
Easier said than done. Deck crew, unless you have been diving with them all week and you have "trained them," (and even not then if the swells are big and they are in a hurry) will usually grab whatever is closest and easiest. That never bodes well for DH divers. I have gone so far as to attach a thick rope handle (with bright yellow duct tape) across the top of my back plate so it is the first thing a deckhand can get their hands on. I have seen many a DH reg (hose, can, whatever) meet an untimely injury, damage, demise at the hands of well-meaning helpers. Good luck! Mark
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:05 pm

Sage Wisdom from Bill.

You can eliminate some confusion by turning your weight belt buckle to opposite direction of your Scuba harness waist buckle. I always use right hand for opening weight belt.

Weight belt ALWAYS releases to the right........Everything else to the left.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

LloydS
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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:17 pm

11/18/19

Yes, thanks Antique Diver for the ! I don't think I'll ever forget that advice. Such a simple thing and yet it never occurred to me.

(By the way, I'm gonna steal that and offer that advice to others........as if I was the really intelligent one)

Lloyd

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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:14 pm

LloydS wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:17 pm
11/18/19

Yes, thanks Antique Diver for the ! I don't think I'll ever forget that advice. Such a simple thing and yet it never occurred to me.

(By the way, I'm gonna steal that and offer that advice to others........as if I was the really intelligent one)

Lloyd
You're welcome Lloyd, and you can feel free to pass that on as if you thought of it. And thanks for the comment, Bryan... but it wasn't my original idea anyway. I think I picked it up in 1968 at a SCIP diving instructor course, and it seemed so sensible that I have continued to use that technique to this day.
The older I get the better I was.

LloydS
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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:14 pm

Hey Mark, I'm trying to picture your "thick rope handle (with bright yellow duct tape) across the top of my back plate." Is there any way you could post a picture or send me a picture at [email protected]? If that's been successful for you, I'll be copying your idea, if you don't mind.

After hearing your suggestion, I thought of using bright yellow duct tape on the "can" (I still don't know if I'm using that term "can" correctly) and writing with a Sharpie "DON'T TOUCH!" on the tape and putting that on both sides of the can.

By the way, attached is a picture of me after being hit in the face by a dive ladder when a big swell suddenly hit the boat on our last trip. Never stopped me from diving, but I think the scuba folks thought I would be upset and gave me a free dive guide on the next dive. So it worked out well and I've got another good story to tell!

Lloyd
Lloyd-Boat shiner-Cozumel-2019.jpg
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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:49 pm

Hey Mark, I'm trying to picture your "thick rope handle (with bright yellow duct tape) across the top of my back plate." Is there any way you could post a picture or send me a picture at [email protected]? If that's been successful for you, I'll be copying your idea, if you don't mind.
I don't mind the copying but it's been a few years since I did that and don't have anything rigged that way currently (and didn't think to take a picture of it). I just attached a brass clip to each end of a 5/8" line and attached each end to the shoulder strap slots on my VDH back plate. Wish I could be more help. M
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

LloydS
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Re: Which backplate, Wings, and Harness?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:53 pm

Thanks Mark. I think I get the picture now.....even without a picture!

Also, Antique Diver said, " I think I picked it [the advice to turn the weight belt buckle the opposite direction to the harness waist buckle] up in 1968 at a SCIP diving instructor course, and it seemed so sensible that I have continued to use that technique to this day.

Now see. That's what Vintage Diving/Modern Vintage Diving is all about. Advice from 1968 has now been transferred to all of us, and then from me to my granddaughters, one of whom is only 18. I think the advice will outlive a lot of us! Good stuff.


PS: Sorry about the two pics of me. Didn't mean to do that.

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