Period correctness.

[1969ivan1]

I guess I was confused about what you were trying to accomplish?

[Ron]

I'm probably just explaining myself poorly, it's a message board and there's no contextual references.

I would like to have a complete setup using parts from 1970-1971. There are areas where it seems that in order to make my setup the most dive-able in the most conditions for me (flying to Hawaii to visit family, boat charters when I drive home to PA, etc) I am willing to modify this equipment for that purpose. I don't think anyone can honestly tell me that divers in the 1970's didn't modify their equipment. Here are a few examples of my mentality on the subject:

- If using a nylon tank band allows me to use all single cylinder sizes and one from 1971 that is made out of steel doesn't, then I am willing to use a nylon band. I would be willing to bet that when AL80's became all the rage there was some dude, somewhere who put a different band on his tank pack and mounted an AL80 to it. I can't be the first one.

- I may use a single piece of webbing to rig my tank pack. I don't want to dive ratty old webbing that is frayed, and if I'm going to buy webbing to re-do my tank pack, then why am I going to add either snaps or a quick release buckle when I don't even want them? It just makes sense to me.

- If I can find a silicone oval mask that looks identical to the kind that people used in the 70's (I think VSS has a silicone one) then I'm probably going to use that. I've used both rubber and silicone masks and silicone is more comfortable to me.

- I originally wanted to use a J valve for my tank. My LDS isn't keen on the idea, and doesn't want to fill or maintain a tank that has a J valve on it. That's fine, I'll use a K valve and a SPG. I'd rather have fills and service than a tank I can't use or have to drive to St. Mary's to get filled. I have a good relationship with my LDS and I am not going to relieve myself in his proverbial Wheaties over a tank valve. If a steel 72 with a K valve gets filled, then right on.

- So I guess the things that are actually from 1970-71 that I plan on using are my first and second stage regs, a tank and valve, a SPG, a snorkel, and some parts of a tank pack. The parts of my setup that are going to be newer, though still look appropriate are the mask, fins, wetsuit (possibly, depending on if I can find an old one that fits me), harness webbing, and tank band.

I'm not exactly sure what category this places me in, and I am more than willing to listen to people. I didn't come here with my mind made up looking for confirmation, I came here for friendly advice. Things that make sense to me seem like a no brainer. Captain said painted tanks sometimes have issues, that means I get a plain galvanized one. I'm just not a fan of "just because."

[seahunter]

The earliest packs, after the harness and strap arrangement was replaced, would accommodate only 72s. But fairly quickly most of them were either adjustable or could be modified to fit larger tanks too.
Healthways had a cam pac that had 2 settings for tank diameter as did many others. It was quite easy to get longer bolts and nuts to make the non-adjustable ones fit.
Actually, non-adjustable is a misnomer since they all had a minimal adjustment to allow the tank to be removed. By substituting longer bolts they can be made large enough to fit an 80. It doesn't take much and is not distinguishable from the original.

I have a lot of homemade packs from the mid to late 60's. Some are steel or aluminum while some are wood.

Reading about the Official "Jet Fin" Vote was interesting. What's the consensus about homemade gear? I have packs, tanks, regulators knives, lights, etc that were all made by the diver. Some were based on the many DIY articles in Science & Mechanics or another magazine while some came from the diver's own mind.
Obviously these exist in no catalog but are genuine vintage diving gear.
In fact, some of them led to production models. I'm thinking of the DIY regulator from 1953 Science & Mechanics made from a USN Oxygen Diluter valve. I have 3 or 4 of these and the design was eventually copied by a company called Divemaster who produced and sold the same unit, nicely chromed I should add.
There were even articles about making your own mask and fins!

I also have one of only 3 remaining original dive masks made by Charlie Sturgill. Later masks including the famous Voit B4 are almost identical copies of that mask.

So how about a vote on homemade scuba gear?
And should it include or preclude modern homemade gear??

[1969ivan1]

Here is the TEASER video of Sand Dog, courtesy of SwimJim..

You may see a few cotton harnesses and back packs being used there...... I am the fat kid in a shorty using the basket cotton harness made by Allan and mounted on a yellow tank, note the cool DM30 oval mask.

http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n255 ... Teaser.flv

[Ron]

That video is awesome man, it looks like something off of an old national geographic I would watch as a kid. BTW was that an old MKV Navy diver's dress?

[JES]

... Yes there is occasionally a bit of elitism around here from time to time (but we try to keep it under control). I think it is just part of human nature, but we try to just have fun with it.

Well said Luis. That's why most people say dive what makes you happy. For some it's period correctness, for Nemrod and I, it's Jet Fins.

[Ron]

JES,

I agree, but am I going to have to change stuff to get into NAVED once my rig is done? Am I going to be allowed to the vintage events with a setup like I would like to have? It really wouldn't be any fun without the social aspect of it for me.

S

[swimjim]

Kam-eze packs are just plain easy and I'm sure you would like them. I also dive Allan's harness and like them a lot. For now go with what you are comfortable with, but I would suggest attending a group event like Sandog or Wazee. You'll find this group of divers to be an accomodating lot and someone will have an Allan harness that you could test dive. Might change your whole attitude on things. You'll have fun regardless!

Jim

[JES]

JES,

I agree, but am I going to have to change stuff to get into NAVED once my rig is done? Am I going to be allowed to the vintage events with a setup like I would like to have? It really wouldn't be any fun without the social aspect of it for me.

S

We really are a very diverse and well rounded group. Heck, we're even associated with a known Manatee harasser.

As for NAVED; There are very few rules in this social organization but before we can welcome you aboard as a member we ask that you meet a minimum of TWO of the criteria outlined below.

1) Provide at least one photo of yourself using scuba equipment that was made prior to 1975. This one is mandatory. You'll need to meet one of the next three as well.
2) Be an active member of the Vintage Equipment discussion forums at
Vintage Double Hose.com or Vintage Scuba Supply.com
3) Dive with us at one of our many Events throughout the year. Sand Dog in Florida, Lake Wazee in Wisconsin, Portage Quarry, in Ohio or any of the diving events sponsored by the Historical Diving Society.
4) Have a recommendation from a current NAVED member.

Finally, with regard to the Vintage dives, once you show up and we let you dive one of our double hose regulators you'll be hooked for life.

[Ron]

Ok, well at least while my equipment choices in single hose regulators and modified gear won't win me many friends, at least it won't exclude me

S

[simonbeans]

While I don't totally agree with your final product, being an historical nut, I do appreciate your endeavors. Yes, you are totally correct in that many divers modified their existing gear to accommodate advances in the sport, you also must realize that in 1970-71 they would not have upgraded to a Datamask because of its advanced technology. It just didn't exist. My methodology is simple. Pick a year and go for the available items. If I choose 1970, for example, I could most definitely use a Broxton Address DA Navy Approved regulator. But not a Scubapro 600. Just like today I can't use a flux capacitor to go back to the future.
All of us who do the vintage dive thing try to dive the gear as it was made and intended. However most of us also accept the advances of today to enhance our enjoyment. We use silicone hoses, diaphragms, modified valves, etc. However, Phoenix aside, all of the mods are exact in appearance and basic function. When we travel to a Sand Dog or other event, air travel prevents tank transport. Thus we do use Al 80s, and modified gear to make them useable. Do your best to stay period but if you find it necessary to adapt, then go for it.

[Ron]

Simonbeans,

That's what I'm really going for. I'm trying to keep it looking correct, but I am going to upgrade somethings. I'm going to be using the U.S. Divers catalog CD from the VDH store. Everything is going to be as close as possible to the way it appears in the catalog, but may not actually be from back then. Your example of silicone instead of rubber is a good one. I'm not going to use anything that didn't exist back then if I can avoid it. So far the only thing I can even think of that I might use that isn't period correct is the tank band as far as I can tell. The tank pack may be too new, but it fits both size tanks and it look virtually identical to the aqualung one. I think what I'll do before I finish it for good it post several pictures and have you guys provide some feedback.

[JES]

You can work your way into this. You don't have to wait until you own everything possible from a certain period before you start diving it.

I know when I first started the only vintage thing I owned was my Voit Trieste II. Thankfully, I didn't let that stop me from meeting-up with Bryan, Rob, and Tom and diving at the first Sand Dog.

Although I have collected more gear since then and can now pass for what many would refer to as a Vintage Equipment Diver at select events and occasions, I probably will never be a historically correct diver like my esteemed colleague Simonbeans.

However, I must say that I truly admire everyone who goes the extra mile to be historically correct. I think they are our standard bearers who help to keep us true to course.

Finally, to quote Forrest Gump: "And that's all I have to say about that."

[capn_tucker]

... Finally, with regard to the Vintage dives, once you show up and we let you dive one of our double hose regulators you'll be hooked for life.

Yes, if I can get him out on the St. Marys boat and try a Voit Polaris, he'll fall to the Voit side. And if that doesn't work I even have a couple of Voit single hose regs now..

[capn_tucker]

Simonbeans,

That's what I'm really going for. I'm trying to keep it looking correct, but I am going to upgrade somethings. I'm going to be using the U.S. Divers catalog CD from the VDH store. Everything is going to be as close as possible to the way it appears in the catalog, but may not actually be from back then. Your example of silicone instead of rubber is a good one. I'm not going to use anything that didn't exist back then if I can avoid it. So far the only thing I can even think of that I might use that isn't period correct is the tank band as far as I can tell. The tank pack may be too new, but it fits both size tanks and it look virtually identical to the aqualung one. I think what I'll do before I finish it for good it post several pictures and have you guys provide some feedback.

As mentioned before, there is the USD Kam-EZ pack. You might want eventually to obtain one of those. They are absolutely vintage, and will accept both 72s and 80s. When you make it down to St. Marys I can let you try my Kam pack to see if you like it.
If you do, then just watch for one on the Bay. They pop up all the time..