RAM Problems

[Nemrod]

It could be the pin length as others have said, nobody is perfect and maybe Bryan needs some of those fancy new reading glasses!!!! lol. He is getting old. Anyways, I bet if your going to toss it Bryan will take it. We can all draw straws.

Nemrod

[JES]

I highly recommend the "KISS" principle when troublshooting (like several others have mentioned. Keep it super simple .... or Keep it simple stupid....

[treasureman]

When the nozzle is in hand, should the HP button that holds the HP pin be flush agsint the bottom of the nozzle or should there be a space? If a space, how much. Mine seems to be just about flush with the nozzle.

[luis]

When the nozzle is in hand, should the HP button that holds the HP pin be flush agsint the bottom of the nozzle or should there be a space? If a space, how much. Mine seems to be just about flush with the nozzle.

There has to be a space. That is the motion that opens the first stage valve. I have to look at my notes and drawings, but I think I have measured from 0.02" to 0.035" gap. Don't quote me on that. I am going by memory (a bad one at that).

I am planing on posting a RAM nozzle drawing (from dimensions taken) with the seat, pin, and pin (mushroom) holder. I did the drawing a wile back as part of my nozzle project. I just have to add some dimensions to make useful to you. It will probably be a couple of days before I can get to it. I hope that can help and is soon enough.

[luis]

Mine seems to be just about flush with the nozzle.

That may be your problem.

[treasureman]

guess that means i need to get a new HP pin.. I note some are cut with a point, others are not. Is it required to be cut with a point?

[Bryan]

Using the Conshelf seat it should be pretty flat on the end. The DA HP seats used a taper point. You can use the pin from any Conshelf regulator any year. Just trim it a little at a time. Don't let it set too high or it will really mess up your adjustments. I'd go with Luis's measurements he's usually right on the $$

[seakrakken]

Treasureman,
It seems like Luis may have nailed it for you but, don't forget how low on the back a DH needs to sit to give good performance. Just my humble contribution. Safe Diving, Mate.

[1stab]

I brought up the pin length possibility but Luis will have the actual figures, mate.

Cheers.

[luis]

Below is a drawing I made of the original RAM nozzle. In one of the cross sections, I am showing a simplified drawing of the seat, the pin and the (mushroom) pin holder.

The gap dimension of 0.039” I believe is the typical dimension I obtained. It is hard to measure precisely since the mushroom pin holder tends to rock. IMHO the minimum gap should probably be above 0.02” or 0.025”. Ideally it should be closer to the 0.039”.

You should be able to push the mushroom pin holder in with your thumb easily. It only takes about 8 lbs. If it is working properly, the force doesn’t change even if there is 3000 psi behind it. I have measured the force to push the first stage valve open with and without air pressure.

I regularly put the assembled nozzle with a yoke on to a tank to make sure it is not leaking. I do not recommend that anyone do that unless you are very comfortable playing with high pressure air. I just like to live dangerously. It is actually not that dangerous, with one exception. If the o-ring in the balancing chamber (spring block) is leaking badly, it can theoretically shoot the pin and pin holder out. Therefore, I don’t put the pin in until I check that it is not leaking and I never stand in front of it.

The 0.635” pin length is the length of some pins that I bought as NOS from Ron (from Going Under Dive Center). These pins did not need any modification to work with the new Conshelf seats. I believe this pins were from the last generation of Royal Aqua Masters which already included the new 1st stage seats (I am not sure about this).

Using the 0.635” pin length dimension seems to work perfect to obtain a 0.039” gap.

Your results may differ.

To cut the pin I use a Dremmel(sp) cutting wheel and leave it a bit long. Then I chuck the pin in a cordless drill and finish the point with a file.

[treasureman]

The pin was .065 OAL, and seemed to have the right clearance with the button installed. I took the HP nozzl;e apart, and found one of the four crown supports broken off. As i dug out each layer of spring etc I found it wedged in the srping just above the HP seat. This may explain the eratic behaviour in terms of breathing super, then all of a sudden not breathing so well.

The whole kit and kaboodle is in the mail to the master of RAM.

[luis]

The pin was .065 OAL, and seemed to have the right clearance with the button installed. I took the HP nozzl;e apart, and found one of the four crown supports broken off. As i dug out each layer of spring etc I found it wedged in the srping just above the HP seat. This may explain the eratic behaviour in terms of breathing super, then all of a sudden not breathing so well.

The whole kit and kaboodle is in the mail to the master of RAM.

Wow! That would definitely explain it. That is scary. I have never heard of that kind of failure.

I guess that could happen to a Conshelf, Titan, etc...it doesn't make me feel any better.

[treasureman]

Actually it was a conshelf Hp seat and block and pin.

No doubt an aberation given the numbers that are out there. The reg would breath, but real hard. The Ip wouldnt stabilize. but all that is History as they say... i took a two pound hammer to my RAm and flattened it I was so upset........... ok ok I was just messing with you guys.. for god sake dont send over the NAVED hit squad with their pink shirts.

[JES]

...ok ok I was just messing with you guys.. for god sake dont send over the NAVED hit squad with their pink shirts.

The NAVED Death Squad would never harm any of our Canadian Vintage Diving friends.

[JES]

Wow! That would definitely explain it. That is scary. I have never heard of that kind of failure.

I guess that could happen to a Conshelf, Titan, etc...it doesn't make me feel any better.

Luis you are right about this being scary.

Treasureman, sure glad that you figured out what happened. I know that many of us were scratching our heads with you.


Regards,

Joe