Air Integrated Hoseless Dive Watch

[duckbill]

In a word- ASCENT RATE.....
David Haas

Thanks David. I hadn't thought of that. Now, you'd think that someone could make an "ascent-rate alarm" for about $20. Then you could have the safety of square profile tables AND an assured safe ascent. Does anyone make such a thing?

For the shore diving I do a computer would be nice, but not very justifiable expense-wise, just to be able to know if I can barely squeeze in one more safe dive. Now, paid boat dives would be another story, and I'd definitely want to rent a computer if and when I go on one.

Does anyone else have any other explanation why a computer would be safer than conscientious use of square profile dive tables coupled with proper skills?

[simonbeans]

What do you want to hear? Tables are safe if you use them and are very conscientious to keep good records. And they are much less expensive than a computer. Being made of plastic with no batteries that can run out or sophisticated electronics that could go wrong, I am sure the tables are great. Choices we make.

[rmannix]

In a word- ASCENT RATE.....
David Haas

Thanks David. I hadn't thought of that. Now, you'd think that someone could make an "ascent-rate alarm" for about $20. Then you could have the safety of square profile tables AND an assured safe ascent. Does anyone make such a thing?

For the shore diving I do a computer would be nice, but not very justifiable expense-wise, just to be able to know if I can barely squeeze in one more safe dive. Now, paid boat dives would be another story, and I'd definitely want to rent a computer if and when I go on one.

Does anyone else have any other explanation why a computer would be safer than conscientious use of square profile dive tables coupled with proper skills?

A computer is even more valuable shore diving, where you can go deep and work your way shallower thru the dive. The computer will continuously figure decompression and you can have a longer dive.

[oldmossback]

Simonbeans said it quite well, keeps the records of your dives.

I bought my aries for the flowergardens trip last year since my old USD had leaked all its oil out......used it for years.......

I was shocked when I returned to the surface each time to see I had gone deeper than I thought I had, even by a few feet. Seems I get distracted with my camera and drop down a few feet further taking photos.......

With a steel 72 and 10% + fill I didn't get out of the green zone by staying too long. But the safety of an accurate depth guage that records, lets you know when to rise to shallower levels is a good investment.

Mine's wrist mounted and does not have a spg gauge included. I can see the advantages of a hoseless unit, however, I've got what I need now.........maybe later when that 21st century double hose hits the market, a remote spg would be very appropriate.

[Nemrod]

I want a computer also but will not go with an integrated model--nope--just don't like that. I want my good old all brass SPG faithfully clipped to my left hand waist D ring. But I do want a computer, perhaps a Suunto type.

Several of my depth guages including an Oceanic and a Tekna that goes to way over 200 feet with an expanded scale for deco stops has a following needle that records your max depth. I have two of them and they are both dead on accurate. The ScubaPro 0-500 guage is almost as accurate but does not have a following needle.

The computers get their advantage when you dive at many levels during a dive or bounce dive several spots etc and the Tables begin to become a blurr in my head and the computers give you credit for surface intervals and multi level where the Tables use max depth--so--yes, I want a computer but I doubt I ever fully abandon the Tables.

James

[Bryan]

You are just a D ring kinda guy James.....You secretly long to have a harness like the one on my SeaQuest Black Diamond...

I'm goin hoseless for Bone Air......It will be kinda like my new light saber

[dhaas]

Nemrod,

Once you use a dive computer, bouncing up and down depth wise several times a day, for multiple dives, you'll NEVER use tables again......

I have a collection from Canada (DCIEM?), I think maybe Swiss or Italian, Old Nu-Way models, PADI Recreational Dive Planner and SimonBeans joked about PADI Wheel, etc. While looking at them somewhat nostalgically from time to time, I've never even taken them out of my office storage closet in the last 20 years for real diving!

I DO prefer a simple non-air integrated wrist mounted unit allowing flexibility no matter what type of tank, reg, etc. you are diving. Although I have many friends using hoseless transmission types, I'm not a big fan of them.

I dive nothing but a simple SPG like you mention, and I use Seaquest's Airsource integrated octopus / inflator making for only 3 hoses on a morden rig. Some don't like the Airsource / AIR II type of combo inflators / octopus. I've breathed off mine in 100+ depths and practiced controlling my ascent while breathing off it. I'm confident I could give someone my primary (the method you're suposed to use with these types of octo/inflators) and get me and a buddy out of trouble. This low drag set up keeps my modern gear almost as streamlined as vintage gear....

Your Mileage May Vary

David Haas

[Nemrod]

I was not meaning to be anti computer, I plan to purchase one soon (or later). I have been studying on my own DIR and Hogarthian diving and the GUE stuff. I have not taken a DIRF course and may never as it is tad extreme in their adaptation of what are the evolved cave diving techniques to open water diving. Essentially they use the same basic configuration for ALL diving. Think about that. The other thing about DIR is apparently they have some sort of standard which is decided upon by a Great Guru and the Great Guru from the Deep came upon the lowly and confused divers of yore and handed them, set in stone carvings, the Fundementals of DIR and what is and is not DIR satisfactory. I, being a simple person, have come under this influence partly because it lies outside of the evil PadI's direct control. Soooo, where am I going, I have gathered that computers in general and hoseless at that are NOT DIR. The best I can tell is that in DIR a BP with one single continuous length of webbing is fitted with three D rings, one on each shoulder strap and one on the left waist. This one is for a brass SPG without rubber case to be clipped and it is to be on a 19 inch hose. A timer and depth guage worn on the wrist records the dive. Most of the equipment sold today is not DIR compatible, none of the jacket BCs or any of that sort are DIR from what I study. After a bit I began to see that much of what they do does make sense and that while it is diffucult to adapt some of their ideas to vintage certain things can fit such as always using the same basic gear arrangment and always arranging it the same way. So here I and others are found between a rock and a hard place, old fashion to begin with and distrustful of modern plastic junk and low and behold air integrated computers are suddenly the rage. I remind y'all that a few years ago tank clangers and neon inserts were equally popular and someone is always trying to figure out how to talk underwater so maybe a cell phone underwater is next to be integrated into the dive computer?
BTW, Luis, nothing may be attached to the SPG per the Great Guru, so not only is your console not vintage, it is not DIR either---lol---just messing with y'all.
Y'all figure out which one of them things works best and let me know and I will get that one and to heck with the DIR Guru as I figure they will all wind up choked by their seven foot hoses wrapped around their necks.

Also, get this, anyone who does not dive as a DIR team or uses non DIR equipment is considered a STROKE. That would be me and all of you! Best I can tell anyways.

Better go under cover for this one so signing off as Nemrod.

[duckbill]

Also, get this, anyone who does not dive as a DIR team or uses non DIR equipment is considered a STROKE.

Yep. STROKE of GENIUS!
Can't wait 'til the decade ends and some other guru comes and changes the fad. Oh, the confusion. What to do?

[dhaas]

Nemrod,

Good to see you're doing some research AND thinking on your own, too I agree some of the DIR / GUE philosophy is good, but the attitude of the Gurus really turns me off. There was funny thread on a web site about their "professional" training video they charge $$$$ for. Two guys sitting in a garage telling war stories, showing gear that doesn't match their philosophy. trucks going down the street in the background, etc.

Anyway, my point would be simplicity, use and how you wear it (like our vintage diving) is best whatever brand / style computer you choose.

Oh, and as far as all of us being STROKES, if we don't dive their way? How have we done all this diving in various environments for all these years, and we're still here.....Haven't seen thousands of deaths per year compared to many sports considered less hazardous.

Keep researching and yo'll find something you like and that does the job, keeping you safer diving.

DAvid Haas

[luis]

I also find some of the DIR philosophies interesting and I agree with some of them, but their implementation is kind of contradicting and weird (when it comes to there selection of some of there gear). The use of a pressure gauge with out protection in my opinion is not a great idea. I own two Scubapro chromed pressure gauges that have been in rubber boots and consoles for over 30 years. They have mostly seen salt water and they are showing a little corrosion, not bad (I always rinse them). On the other hand I bought a relatively new gauge on eBay (with larger print for my vintage eye sight) that did not have a rubber boot or console and the bottom edge of the chromed case has almost worn through (that didn’t show up in the pictures).

Yes Nemrod, I have been using instrument consoles (and my Fenzy BC) not just at Wazee but since the early 70’s (now quit picking on me, these are far more vintage than your silly back plate or wing). This brings me to my next more relevant point in this thread. I like the idea of a hose-less instrument console/ computer in theory, but I know that in my case I will tend to forget to wear it until I am in the water; and none of those instruments work worth a darn when you leave them behind. My first solution was just strapping my depth gauge to my pressure gauge and then some times I would switch it to my wrist after I was in the water.

I don’t own a computer yet, but I can see a major safety advantage in reducing human error when it comes to keeping track of times, depth, and performing multiple dives. I am not suggesting that electronics can’t malfunction; on the contrary I always assume that any piece of electronic is always capable of malfunction in the worst possible moment. But even then, when it comes to tedious task (like keeping track of stuff and doing repetitive calculations, etc.) they are far more reliable than humans.

Here in Maine most of my ocean dives are in less than 35 ft, so DCS is not a high concern. Getting a drysuit has taken precedence over getting a computer. When a get one it will probably not replace my trusty mechanical (with big numbers) pressure gauge or depth gauge. It will probably be a wrist mounted type, but again I am probably going to strap it on the back of my console. Again I am trying to reduce that human error factor (forgetfulness).

One more nice thing about the banjo fitting is that now I only need one set of instruments for all the regulators I normally use (my Royals and Aqua Masters).

[Nemrod]

Luis, I too have a ScubaPro all rubber console that I am sure I got in the early 70s. Cannot swear to it but I have had it a long time.It has accompined me faithfully many years and I still use it when not in vntage mode and maybe I will start using it vintage as well since I think it actually is--barely. The current guages in it are from the 80s though as the Princeton Tectonics wind up timer.When I first started using it way back it had like a 30 inch hose on it. Oddly over the years I had shortened the hose down to 19 or 20 inches. Way back it hung off my left shoulder strap and then along the way I started clipping it to a snap on my left waist. To view it I have to unclip it but it stays out of the way instead of dangling about. If I got one of those round computers like Rob has--Oceanic etc---I think they would fit into the console in place of the depth guage.
Was not really try to push DIR off on folks, just some of what they do is anti technology (no computer) and I kind of like their standardization and functional approach which in many ways is why I like vintage, simple, functional, rugged, low tech.

Oh and the stroke thing, I think that is funny because among the vintage community are some of the most knowledgeable divers there are, yes, the elitism of DIR is a definite turn off and the friendly, knowledgeable totally opposite attitude of vintage community is a great attraction.

Long live double hose regulators and uh--consoles too and the air integreted stuff really does sound neat and that it is invisible makes it vintage friendly.

Nemrod

[duckbill]

I like the idea of a hose-less instrument console/ computer in theory, but I know that in my case I will tend to forget to wear it until I am in the water; and none of those instruments work worth a darn when you leave them behind.

They could even solve that problem by going VLF (Very Low Frequency). VLF will work throught the water and, given enough power, should be able to transmit the information to your wrist mount you left in the car . The only downside is having to trail a couple hundred yards of wire antenna behind you like the submarines do!



By the way, is "STROKES" an acronym? What does it mean?

[luis]

They could even solve that problem by going VLF (Very Low Frequency). VLF will work throught the water and, given enough power, should be able to transmit the information to your wrist mount you left in the car . The only downside is having to trail a couple hundred yards of wire antenna behind you like the submarines do!

Funny you mentioned that, when I worked at Gould Ocean Systems Division in Maryland, I actually was part of a design team working on one of those antennas. The company main products were towed sonar arrays for submarines, surface ships, and also for oil exploration. Thanks for the suggestion, but no thanks. I couldn’t read it anyway.


Talking about reading the instruments, I am thinking about getting a longer hose. I am avoiding getting reading lenses at the bottom of my mask.

[Nemrod]

Luis, those stick on lenses work pretty good. It is not really practical to move them from mask to mask so several pairs are probably needed for your favorite dive masks. I got some and am very pleased so far. I could not read my watch or spg or if I had one a hoseless computer so my only option was a custom mask lens but then what do you do for your vintage stuff so the Optix stick on lenses are probably a good solution and fairly cheap. One thing I tried with them was just putting one lense in the left lower corner and that works to read instruments but I have decided it is nice to have both especially if you might wear instruments on your left arm. Anyway they may be an option because I understand what your saying, my vision is terible up close and oddly it seems better than ever at any distance beyond about 30 feet and I so hate wearing glasses.

James