Old Fashioned Harness

[fishb0y]

Don't get me wrong, I love diving with the harness, but isn't the idea behind the Pheonix is to dive with modern equipment such as a BC?

If/when I purchase a Pheonix, it would be to use a double hose on chaters/vacations that wouldn't otherwise allow most vintage gear.

[Bryan]

You can use any backpack/ BC (barf) that you want and I'm sure it will work fine. It just wont allow you to put the regulator in the exact "optimal" position where it performs the best. I'm sure you will feel the breathing difference when you use the doubles and harness. Get that regulator almost touching your back and down a little lower than your shoulder blades and it purrrrrs like a kitten!

[simonbeans]

I dove Bryan's Phoenix at Wazee with my twin 38s with my harness. The nozzle the reg is longer so the regulator body was actually lying against my back smack dab in the middle of my shoulder blades. It was sooooo cool to feel the bubbles on my back. With a silicone diaphram in it, the breathings was as easy as any single hose, with the added asthetic value and better viz (no bubble in your face). And I actually got to fondle the Phoenix all week before Portage. But Bryan knows where I live, so I HAD to give it back. So, wait I must until the next run. Believe me folks, it will be worth the wait.
Allan

[1969ivan1]

If you must use a bcd perhaps you can score a nice seatec horse collar. The military still uses them, I think and if you need to ditch your tank you can keep your floatation.

[luis]

When you are traveling on vacations (and charters), if you are renting tanks, you will be most likely renting an Aluminum 80. With the extra diameter of an Aluminum 80 the Phoenix should fit most back packs.

I have been using my Phoenix with my Genesis back pack / BC and it works fine. It has a traditional plastic back pack with a slight forward slant at the top allowing me to mount the back pack in the normal position. I modified the harness to fit snug like a traditional harness, but the pack to tank interface is standard.

I did find that it interferes with some of my other traditional back packs when mounted to steel 72 at the standard height. There are several possible solutions. With some packs you may be able to lower the pack and adjust the shoulder straps to lower the tank. Depending on the pack you may be able to modify the plastic portion of the pack to fit.

There are so many different back pack and back plates that it is hard to tell if you may or may not have a problem. The interference I have seen with some plastic back packs is small, but it is there.

[duckbill]

Ah, yes. The Phoenix would be great for traveling where dive boats are on the agenda. And this whole bit about backpacks vs harnesses- just another example where a basket type harness which is adjustable for Al80s OR St72s would be ideal. Just wad it up and throw it in your bag, and you're ready for whatever cylinder you rent. A wadded up harness and horsecollar should be smaller than most backpacks alone.

[Nemrod]

"Don't get me wrong, I love diving with the harness, but isn't the idea behind the Pheonix is to dive with modern equipment such as a BC? "

I cannot speak but for myself but my interest in the Phoenix is not for vintage diving, it is for "modern" diving. I want to use my prefered regulator regardless of what ever configuration I am required to use by the charter boat, resort etc. Most dive boats are going to reaquire certain capabilities such as an spg or octapus. I might also be of a mind that despite being fond of diving sans BC and minimal gear there are times when a BC is wise and when that is so I prefer a wing/BP. I am also deciding I want a dry suit and that needs LP support also. Just because I am diving modern does not mean I need to ditch the double hose--not with the Phoenix.

BUT, there is nothing that keep a person from removing the LP/HP hoses and diving the Phoenix totally vintage and more than that, it is fully rebuildable and actually seems to perform better than the standard RAM. So, therefore, I would see no problem with myself diving a harness with the Phoenix--why not--and it works great that way and sits so close to your back---perfect!

I tell y'all what, about half way back across that quarry after I had dove all the way to the other side, I was wishing for my wing/BP. Instead of struggling I could have inflated it, rolled on my back, my mask popped jaunty on my forehead, the wing comfortably supporting my arms as if resting in a easy chair and I would have swam back with no effort. Early this year with my dive with Fred and Allan out of Pensecola when the anchor drug off the wreck, I took off following the marks knowing full well I would never get back to the anchor line and would have to surface a LONG--LONG way from the boat--ALONE--and possibly swim back to it or wait for it to come get me. It was comforting knowing that I wold not have to struggle at the surface but just inflate my wing and lean back and relax on the surface.

I love the harness and Allan you might as well make me another but there are times when I do need more equipment. I am able to get the regulator low enough, not as low as i would like but low enough using a BP/wing combo.

In Table Rock lake or Alexander Springs are on some shallow snoozer reef in Belize or at Portage Quarry etc the harness is absolutely great. In the Gulf, ten plus miles from shore, strong currents and 100 feet of water, three foot waves, I really want my BP/wing, thankyou.

James

[Nemrod]

allan, Treasureman's comment about an adjustable basket style that would accept both aluminum 80s and stell 72s---is that possible?

Imagine, a simple CO2 type vest, basket harness and double hose and your set for shore diving. Add a hosecollar instead of the CO2 vest and LP and octapus and your set for most charter boat dives. You can rig that without the Phoenix nozzle easy enough.

All of that could be rolled up super small and lightweight for airline travel in the weird world we currently live in.


Hmmm, basket harness, would Captain Fathom approve ?

James

[simonbeans]

I did make a basket style for Rob that would fit an Al 80. With the design which is historically correct, they probably would not be adjustable between the two cylinders. Luis had me make up a harness to be used with Scubapro BC tank straps. This strap is one of the most secure. He used it at Sand Dog III as he was traveling via air and needed to eliminate some weight. I am not sure if he is completely happy with the result. It was an experiment.
Allan

[luis]

Hi Allan

The harness you made me (for the Scubapro bands) works great. It is awesome for traveling and being able to quickly switch from different tanks and different size/ types of tanks. I don’t get too much of a chance to use it because up here I need a BC most of the time.

The last couple of weeks we took one evening to do what one of my buddies called a tropical dive. It was in a local lake and we stayed above the thermocline. I was wearing a 3 mm shorty my Simonbeans custom harness on a steel 72, my Mistral, no need for weights, no BC, and no octopus. They were great dives.

The Scubapro bands are a great/ practical replacement for the metal bands. They are not vintage tank bands, but it allows you the use of a vintage style harness with several tanks and tank sizes. I can pack the whole thing in a Ziploc bag and the bands are very secure. They are very easy to use and it is very quick to change tanks. Only a vintage diver that is truly paying attention could tell that the hole rig in not original.

There are some pictures from Sand Dog III were I was wearing it. I will try to post some more detail pictures of the harness later. I highly recommend it as a versatile alternative.

[simonbeans]

The key to your harness concept is the Scubapro Bands. The rest of the harness is the same as an original, although the material doesn't fit into slots of the metal bands. We made the "actual' harness to loop over the SP bands. When the SP bands are cammed tight, there was no slipage. In reality it is a brillant idea. Of course, all of yours are. I knew I should have taken some engineering courses when Moses and I went to school. I guess I will have to let you "youngsters" develop the ideas and I'll just use them. Thanks for the Phoenix. Another idea from the mind of a genius. By the way, Rob and I are headed to the St. Lawrence September 8-9. Want to join us?
Allan

[luis]

By the way, Rob and I are headed to the St. Lawrence September 8-9. Want to join us?
Allan

Want to? yes. Can I? I am not sure. I am still looking for a new job and I have a feeling that I will be starting in it during that week.

[1969ivan1]

I will be most likely diving my new FENZY for fun. We all know I have no need for a BCD. It is still hoding air since I inflated it 3 days ago. It lloks so pretty and orange.
A question for you LUIS. Where did you score those scubapro bands and clips? Just in case I want to employ Allan to make me another harness?

[luis]

I will be most likely diving my new FENZY for fun. We all know I have no need for a BCD. It is still holding air since I inflated it 3 days ago. It looks so pretty and orange.
A question for you LUIS. Where did you score those Scubapro bands and clips? Just in case I want to employ Allan to make me another harness?

Take good care of my new Fenzy.

I got the Scubapro bands from my LDS. They are sold separate as a common retrofit for back packs. They are far more secure than the standard 2" web cam.