Neophyte Question

[andyfrazer]

Hi,

I'm new to VDH. I have some very basic questions about diving with double hose regs. I've searched the forums and I haven't been able to find them anywhere. Can anyone help?

I'm sure this will lead to more questions, but my basic questions are:

1). Can a VDH be modified to support a modern octopus/console/BCD system?

2). What guidelines can you provide for selecting a first VDH reg? Which is the best model? Most reliable? Easiest to get parts, etc?

3). Do most vintage divers limit themselves to shallow dives, or do you dive normal recreational profiles with some sort of octopus backup regulator?

Thanks!

Andy Frazer
<a href="http://www.gorillasites.com/Topside.htm">Topside Photography</a>

[Nemrod]

Welcome to vintage diving.

Yes, you can modify a double hose to support a BC, octapus or such as that and the easiest way to do that is to save your money and next time there is a release of the PHOENIX conversion kits--PURCHASE one ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Phoenix:


Here is another way using a hookah adapter from Bryan's store and common swivel Tee three way and yes--hurry--get a banjo adapter right away for your spg:




For a first double hose I would get a USD DA Aqua Master or spend the cash and get a Royal Aqua Master.The Phoenix will convert a DA to a Royal BTW.

I can only speak for myself, depth, it depends on what vintage rig I am diving, Essentially the limits are those that are wise for any equipment. When I dive this combination of modern and old gear.

OxyCheq Mach V on Hammerhead tech plate with slung 19 cf pony:


or OxyCheq Mach V on Freedom Plate:




But when I dive something like this then I stay a bit more reasonable:





Here is my old early 80s (non vintage SeaTec wing) with Phoenix and stuff:



I forget how deep I was here but it was a cold water, limited viz dive well in excess of 100 feet--solo:



Here is myself at Weeki Wachee in a mostly vintage outfit, sharskin suit, steel 72, Nemrod manual horsecollar BC, 1958 USD MIstral, Voit Skin Diver fins and old Healthways mask, a perfectly adequate diving outfit for most any normal sport diving. SPG is run from a banjo adapter and is a vintage SeaVue and the octapus---don't need no stink'n octapus!




Your questions have many answers, those or mine more or less.


In the vintage world, when you see something you need--you better get it NOW because things in general or a limited market with small runs of custom reproduction parts that come and go and come and go.

Disclaimer, some of the stuff above is clearly non vintage and some is very vintage, I tend to mix and match or other times stay fully vintage as my needs require.JFYI, the Phoenix rigs above are fully capable of any sport dive one would undertake. Double hose regs are probably not your best bet for serious penetration diving or caves.

Nemrod

[TN Traveler]

I'm relatively new to Vintage Diving and I'm sure some of the more seasoned member of this board will add to my comments or correct me, if I do not get it right.

1). Can a VDH be modified to support a modern octopus/console/BCD system?

You can add an octo/BCD system by putting an adapter on the Hookah port along with a splitter - you can add an SPG by using a banjo fitting.

Or the easier way is to add a Phoenix Nozzle, which you can get through Vintage Double Hose, which add ports for both lp (octo/bc) and hp (spg).

2). What guidelines can you provide for selecting a first VDH reg? Which is the best model? Most reliable? Easiest to get parts, etc?

My suggestion would be to get either a US Divers DA Aquamaster (DAAM) or Royal Aquamaster (RAM) - the Phoenix Nozzle essentially converts a DAAM to a RAM, with the additional ports - maiking it a balanced 1st stage. Both these regs are 2 stage, so they breath easier. Parts for repair are available from Bryan or other members of this site and there a other sources around as well. The Phoenix Nozzle uses parts of the current Aqualung Titan - so parts are easily available.

My suggestion would be to find a DA Aquamaster and send it to Bryan and have him overhaul it and install a Phoenix Nozzle. The resulting PRAM is a fantastic regulator - breathes better than any single hose.

3). Do most vintage divers limit themselves to shallow dives, or do you dive normal recreational profiles with some sort of octopus backup regulator?

I've has my PRAM down to 90 feet with no problems. Double hose regs are especially good in cold water, because there is little chance of freeze-ups and resulting freeflows.

I'm sure others on this board will have lots more to add - but I can say that diving Vintage is no different than diving modern gear - except, as an one who loves to take underwater photos - I love the bubbles exhausting behind my head.

Michael

[andyfrazer]

Thanks Nemrod and TN Traveler! This is exactly the information that I was looking for.

I hope this doesn't get me kicked out of the club, but I'm only interested in the double-hose regulator, not the whole vintage kit, since I'll probably continue renting all of my equipment (not including the awesome regulator) from my local dive shop, for now.

I'll start keeping my eye out for a DAAM and the Pheonix adaptor kits.

BTW, it seems that most vintage divers are either in Florida, or between the Mid-Atlantic and MidWest states. There don't seem to be too many vintage divers out here in Northern California, which is surprising since there seem to be so many cold water kelp divers around here.

Thanks again. I'll be posting here again, soon.

Andy

[TN Traveler]

You will find it gets a little addictive.

I dive my PRAM, much like Nemrod, with a BPW, split fins and a gauge reader mask, most of the time. But I recently purchased a backpak, horsecollar BC and steel tank for play.

[andyfrazer]

Thank, TN Traveler.

I infer that PRAM refers to Pheonix Royal AquaMaster.

But what does "BPW" mean?

Andy

[TN Traveler]

BPW = Back Plate and Wing - Nemrod has pictures posted of his Freedom Plate and Oxycheq Wing. Just a steel or aluminum plate, fitted with a webbing harness and to which you bolt a wing (bladder) and then strap your tank to the back. It is sort of an outgrowth from the orignal backpak that you attached your tank to and the horsecollar BC (similar to a snorkel vest) that were used years ago - a BPW sort of combines the two.

It is more versatile than a jacket BC, since you can change the wing for different floatation depending on what you are diving - aluminum tanks, steel tanks - single tank, double tank - neoprene wetsuite, drysuite, no suite. Of course, you wind up with several wings (and maybe plates), but it makes weighting and trim easier. But this really is not a "vintage" topic.

[swimjim]

Thanks Nemrod and TN Traveler! This is exactly the information that I was looking for.

I hope this doesn't get me kicked out of the club, but I'm only interested in the double-hose regulator, not the whole vintage kit, since I'll probably continue renting all of my equipment (not including the awesome regulator) from my local dive shop, for now.

I'll start keeping my eye out for a DAAM and the Pheonix adaptor kits.

BTW, it seems that most vintage divers are either in Florida, or between the Mid-Atlantic and MidWest states. There don't seem to be too many vintage divers out here in Northern California, which is surprising since there seem to be so many cold water kelp divers around here.

Thanks again. I'll be posting here again, soon.

Andy

Yes, it starts with a double hose reg. Then another. Hmmm, you know, I really should pick up an oval mask. That's not too expensive. Well gee, that harness I saw at XYZ fest looked really cool. Got to have one of those. And on it goes. Could be worse. At least you'll want to go out and use your aquistiions.
I agree with the above posters. Great pictures as always James. Get a USD reg as most parts are available. If you want to hook up new fangled things like a bcd or an octo you'll either need a DA or Royal. If your really lucky you might get a Phoenix.
I've had my DA's and my Phoenix past 100 feet on wrecks in Lake Michigan. They do well in the near freezing water. I rebuild my own now. If rebuilding your own regs is not your thing, have Bryan rebuild yours before you use it. He does great work. Or you could skip some headaches and just buy the reg from him ready to go.
Double hose regs are a different beast. For instance, theres no purge button. Hit the books, study up on them and then hit the pool. A little retraining will be needed. Even your swimming position will change a little. Once comfortable with them your single hosers will see a lot less bottom time. Welcome to the vintage community. Dive safe and have fun with it.

Jim

[Nemrod]

Wo Nellie, lol, sounds like a plan but for one detail, renting gear may be a challenge for use with a double hose regulator. There is a bit more to it than that. Modern equipment often is at least semi-noncompatible with double hose regulators. The double hose regulator needs to be positioned lower, the tank that is, on your back than is customary today and this is not a small thing to ignore or to accomplish with some types of modern equipment. Eventually you will want to have your own equipment and modify it to suit your needs and you will want more than one double hose,aheck, at least two, one for pure vintage and one for making the DIR guys whine and cry .


Nemrod

[Scuba Cowboy]

Hey Andy, where you at in Northern CA? I used to be from Santa Rosa, now living in warm Yuma, AZ. Just got tired of the CA rat race and moved to AZ to open a dive shop. Life is good!

[capn_tucker]

Thanks Nemrod and TN Traveler! This is exactly the information that I was looking for.

I hope this doesn't get me kicked out of the club, but I'm only interested in the double-hose regulator, not the whole vintage kit, since I'll probably continue renting all of my equipment (not including the awesome regulator) from my local dive shop, for now.

Andy

Heh heh heh. That's how it starts.. I'm only going to get a double hose regulator. Gee, that vintage mask would be really cool to go with the reg. And those duck feet.. and those vintage twin tanks.. and that vintage knife.. and.....

[Nemrod]

I went to a Discover Scuba Day today, sorta a lark! Well, the company I work for has a scuba club and they were involved and I got drug along by a friend. Anyways, it was funny, at first they did not notice and then as I swim by I noticed puzzled looks on their faces--like--what is that . I don't think they actually had any clue except that something was different and all of them sort of stood far away as if I was an alien come to earth whispering among themselves and complaining I had no snorkel, my mask on my forehead and on and on . One guy finally muttered something about old school and I pretended to not understand his implication . I hate that "old school" crap, I might cut his hose some time for that . I was with my PRAM and Hog Freedom Plate with Mach V. The all black and stainless and chromed brass even down to my Tekna knife was a constrast to their plastic poodle fru fru jackets and I think that caught more attention than the PRAM and was far more streamlined and "modern".

My primary reason for agreeing to attend this event so I could be fussed at by PadI Police types for leaving my tank standing while I reached for my reg and getting lectured on the MOF thing etc is so I could use this pools near 15 foot depth and also continue testing the PMDSV post Wazee.

Well, I have to leave on a company trip Sunday, hope they have wirelsss.

Nemrod<------did I ever say I hate PadI, if I did not, well, I do