swimjim
Master Diver
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:28 am
First Name: Jim
Location: Belgium WI

Argonaut DSV

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:45 pm

I've had my DSV since they came out. I really like it. Recently I have had several dives with my DSV equipt Kraken and it has been breathing WET! Well, damn Sam. So I took the Kraken apart to inspect the exhaust mushroom. It looked clean and just like it was installed yesterday. I carefully inspected the red hoses. They looked as new despite a ton of dives on them. I looked at the DSV and it looked just fine. I tried to get it to leak, but it wouldn't. Hmmmm..... So I dug through my goodies. I found the bag that the DSV came in and Bryan had included replacement O - rings. Well then... I replaced the O - rings. Today, I dove the Kraken on a wreck in 50 feet of water for about 40 minutes. No leaks!
So, if your DSV is breathing wet but seems fine and everything else checks out, disassemble, clean it up and put a new set of O-rings in it and you will be back in business. :D

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rhwestfall
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First Name: Robert
Location: "La Grande Ile"

Re: Argonaut DSV

Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:17 am

of particular importance is to make sure it is fully open. If not, it can leak.
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

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Fibonacci
Vintage Diver
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First Name: Graeme
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Argonaut DSV

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:41 am

Do you know what size and Duro specification the DSV and wagon wheel o-rings are?

Useful to have some spares for field repairs in remote locations!
'A man can never have too much red wine, too many books or too much ammunition' Rudyard Kipling

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Fibonacci
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Argonaut DSV

Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:02 am

rhwestfall wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:17 am
of particular importance is to make sure it is fully open. If not, it can leak.
Interesting! Via what path?

I had issues on a recent dive trip to PNG when the exhaust loop on my Kraken would occasionally flood in specific conditions... body horizontal, head slightly down, paused after breathing out. Could hear a 'glick-glick-glick' as water came in :shock:
Hoses, diaphragm, can and mouthpiece exhaust valves were all fine.

The deckhands would sometimes partially close the DSV when setting up my gear on the boat so I'm wondering if this could be the cause of the problem?
'A man can never have too much red wine, too many books or too much ammunition' Rudyard Kipling

swimjim
Master Diver
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:28 am
First Name: Jim
Location: Belgium WI

Re: Argonaut DSV

Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:46 pm

Don't know the spec's, but Bryan has you covered.... https://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/ ... ry=9965573

lexvil
Diver
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First Name: lex
Location: Sonora, ca.

Re: Argonaut DSV

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:00 am

Fibonacci wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:02 am
rhwestfall wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:17 am
of particular importance is to make sure it is fully open. If not, it can leak.
Interesting! Via what path?

I had issues on a recent dive trip to PNG when the exhaust loop on my Kraken would occasionally flood in specific conditions... body horizontal, head slightly down, paused after breathing out. Could hear a 'glick-glick-glick' as water came in :shock:
Hoses, diaphragm, can and mouthpiece exhaust valves were all fine.

The deckhands would sometimes partially close the DSV when setting up my gear on the boat so I'm wondering if this could be the cause of the problem?
Mine does this a lot, my assumption is that it’s the DBE or whatever the valve in the can is called on the Kraken, it doesn’t happen every dive but very often. I think it has to do with slow exhale but not reputable enough to really come to a clear conclusion.

tbone1004
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First Name: Tom

Re: Argonaut DSV

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:57 am

lexvil wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:00 am


Mine does this a lot, my assumption is that it’s the DBE or whatever the valve in the can is called on the Kraken, it doesn’t happen every dive but very often. I think it has to do with slow exhale but not reputable enough to really come to a clear conclusion.
I'd second this one. Mine does it with similar frequency and circumstances

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Fibonacci
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First Name: Graeme
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Argonaut DSV

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:42 pm

At last some independent confirmation... thought mine was an isolated case!
So if it occurs on the Kraken, it should also occur on the DBE as they are virtually identical in design?

The full exhaust loop flood first occurred on a night dive when I was breathing softly. marvelling at how the DH allowed me to get much closer to the tiny shrimp I was photographing. Suddenly it became almost impossible to breathe out without a concerted effort... very disconcerting :?

I suspect the can exhaust valve is lifting off a little allowing water in because with body horizontal and head down the can exhaust valve becomes the highest point in the system.

Maybe the Kraken/DBE exhaust valve needs some radial stiffening ribs added to help tune at what pressure it cracks?
'A man can never have too much red wine, too many books or too much ammunition' Rudyard Kipling

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ScubaLawyer
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Location: Laguna Beach, CA

Re: Argonaut DSV

Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:02 am

I have a difficult time conceptualizing an exhaust hose flooding being caused by a DBE. Not saying it couldn't happen but I have had many slow exhalations in many attitudes without issue. I know they underwent extensive field testing. I have them on six different regs plus the built-in DBE in my Kraken and have used them in many types of conditions. Never had a problem on a dive.

I have had exhaust hoses flood due to hard to see splits in hoses. I did have an exhaust can on a DA AquaMaster fill with sand that got into the DBE and even into the exhaust hose along with copious amounts of water after a less-than-textbook-surf-exit on a beach dive (ass over teakettle as my granny used to say).

I would really be surprised if the culprit here was a DBE unless there was something stuck under the mushroom valve or the valve wasn't seated properly or the valve got deformed somehow.  Anyway,  take it or leave it,  my 2psi. Mark
 
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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Fibonacci
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First Name: Graeme
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Argonaut DSV

Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:16 am

Thanks ScubaLawyer... yes my immediate thoughts were something lodged under the exhaust valve or partially pulled through the cage somehow.
Split the can and checked everything thoroughly (including the mouthpiece valves) but no debris, distortion or damaged hoses :(
'A man can never have too much red wine, too many books or too much ammunition' Rudyard Kipling

lexvil
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:28 pm
First Name: lex
Location: Sonora, ca.

Re: Argonaut DSV

Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:20 am

It’s not the hose, it happens regardless of the hoses used. I tried changing the valve and I can say it seemed to help for a while but since the issue is intermittent and it reoccurred I can’t say that’s it. I had assumed it to be perhaps something unique to cold water because Bryan could never find the issue in his testing, it never gets past the valves in the DSV and breaths are always dry. It may have something to do with posisition, maybe I’ll take it out soon and try some different positions while listening for the glug, this is disconcerting to the level that I didn’t take the Kraken to Truk.

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rhwestfall
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Re: Argonaut DSV

Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:31 am

Isn't this basically "case fault geometry", just like any other regulator? In a head down position, the exhaust valve on the DBE is now higher, and, just like any single hose second then breathes wet as air pressure holds it open?

Perhaps a stiffer mushroom valve is needed (but then sacrifices the exhale WOB...
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

lexvil
Diver
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:28 pm
First Name: lex
Location: Sonora, ca.

Re: Argonaut DSV

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:52 am

Has it happened to you Bob? You should try the WOB with a full exhaust hose :shock:
I think I’ll dig around and see if I have a mushroom valve in the right size that is stiffer and give it a try. I’ve always found the exhale WOB to of no notice at all, until I have to push the water out.

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rhwestfall
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Location: "La Grande Ile"

Re: Argonaut DSV

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm

Full flood? Nope... I was getting water in my mouthpiece (PRAM - not my Kraken - haven't used it this year) which I attributed to the DSV being partially open/closed. If water is getting in the exhaust loop, I speculate it is the mushroom valve on the DBE staying open for some reason.

I have the DSV on 3 or 4 DH regs, and all have the DBE....
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

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luis
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Re: Argonaut DSV

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:30 pm

Check that the exhaust valve is in good shape and the arrow head in the stem is properly seated.

It is not uncommon to get a little leak or a few drops of water back past the exhaust valve (just like in a single hose exhaust), but flooding is a malfunction and it should never happen in any position.

Some water drops leaking back while you are exhaling is common on any type of exhaust, but flooding is not.

I have hundreds of dives using several different Argonauts (and hundreds of other divers do to) and before that with the DBE and I never had the exhaust fully flooded. A little bit of water from small leak yes, but fully flooded means an exhaust valve malfunction.

You may have had debris temporarily caught under the valve or the stem might have been partially unseated.

You may want to just replace the exhaust valve.


One other thing that I often do is put a small drop of silicone seal caulking under the arrow head in the stem and make sure the stem is fully seated (I also do this on the mouthpiece valves). I do this because I use a high velocity blower to dry my hose loop and exhaust after a weekend of diving. I am afraid the flow velocity could partially dislodge or unseat the valve. This is not required, but it guaranties that the mushroom valves are always properly seated. You may want to try this first if you don't have a replacement valve handy.
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

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