pasadenatim
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Phoenix Service Question

Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:37 pm

I have a Phoenix Aquamaster with the HPR second installed. I've got about 20 ocean dives on it, and coming up on 2 years, so I thought it was time for service. I have serviced my SP Mk 5 / 109's & G250, and several DACOR diaphram regs and Pacers, but this is my first venture into the DH set up. I have a new HP seat, and the orings. I've disassembled the yoke parts, and dissasembled the 1st stage Spring block and oring (really hard to get out) the springs, HP seat, pin, and pin support. Removed all port plugs. Placed all into ultrasonic cleaner with 50% bath of water/white vinager. Followed with washing and rinse, drying of all parts. Cleaned main diaphram with just soapy water. Inside of cans looked good with minor green / salt deposits. Plan on cleaning that with toothbrush and sonic cleaner solution.

My plan is to reinstall everything, then check IP. Not real sure on adjusting the HP on the Phoeniz though.

I have questions about reinstalling the phoeniz into the can. Do I just snug it up good, or is there a recommended torque setting? Same with the yoke nut, or just use the recommeded setting for the Conshelf 1st? Do I need to dissasemble the HPR 2nd and clean it. It looks pretty good right now. I'm just not sure what the black rubber disk or diaphram is that sits under the pin support. Didn't know if that all had to come out for inspection etc. I did review the site article on adjusting the HPR second, and that seems logical to me.

Any help is appreciated as I'm still learning and trying to gain experience with servicing my DH.

Thanks

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Bryan
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:51 pm

One of the great things about the Phoenix is that once you have it installed and "clocked" into the position you want it you do not need to remove it ever again from the body to service it. Just a note for next time.
By using one or more HP gaskets you can get the port alignment where you want it and also tight enough. What is tight enough? Tight enough that the ports are aligned where you want and tight enough that it will not come loose easily if someone mistakenly twists the regulator by the horns or tries to move the whole thing under pressure. If that happens you will lose the seal between the body and first stage and it will leak.

The Phoenix is not extremely picky about IP. Set it to around 135 like you would any Conshelf and it will be happy. +/- a few psi won't matter. I would not run it past 145psi as it may cause your safe second to freeflow depending on the model.

The yoke nut should be just a touch more than finger tight. Many divers finger tighten only as they travel with their Phoenix and remove the yoke so it packs flatter in luggage.

Since you have gone this far I would recommend replacing the HP diaphragm and washer.

The HPR can simply be rinsed out, seat replaced or flipped over and re-installed. Once you do, be sure to check lever height an clearance of the exhaust can.

If I made this clear as mud I apologize but others will come along and clear it up I'm sure.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

pasadenatim
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:49 pm

Thanks for the info Bryan. The only question I have is how to get the volcano orafice out. Normally, by pushing it out from the opposite side with a wood down or pencil eraser end, but there isn't access from the opposite side. I'm hesitant about trying to pull it out for fear of damaging the sealing edge. Or is the orafice permanently mounted in the phoenix?

Thanks,
Tim

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Bryan
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:01 pm

Once you have removed the HP diaphragm, pin support and pin you can push the volcano orifice out with a wood or plastic dowel.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

pasadenatim
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:39 pm

I'm sorry, but this has me really stumped. Maybe I'm not talking about the same thing. I've attached photo's of what I think is the volcano orafice.
IMG_0866resized.jpg
The hole on the other side is only 1 few mm's and I've tried a real thin wood dowl, but it won't budge. Does that part on the bottom of the phoenix come off which is right above the pin support area to allow access to push out the orafice?
IMG_0866resized.jpg
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Herman
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:14 am

I find a hard plastic dowel works pretty well to push the orifice out, if it's tight sometimes a wood dowel will break. If you using a wood dowel, it needs to be a hard wood to be strong enough. An alternative is a shaved down bamboo chopstick, they are usually pretty strong. When pushing the orifice out, work it from side to side, only moving it a tiny bit each time. If you try to just push on just one side it will often times bind. You might also try pushing it back in from the HP side to ensure it is squarely seated (not already in a bind from your first attempt) before trying to remove it.
Herman

pasadenatim
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:19 pm

Okay, Will try the shaved down chopstix. The cotton tipped swab on a small stick I was using just couldn't do it. Thanks for the info. I appreciate all the help

jsmall
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:23 am

I disassembled the HO end of my phoenix the other day. The sintered filter was crusted up after my dive trip to Cayman Brac, (the valet dive service did not take care to keep all the seawater out between tanks) I swabbed out the minor salt with q-tips and vinegar upon reassembly I am getting an IP creep over 150 and slowly up to about 200. I shut it down after that. It seems to work fine, and I never checked to see if it had the creep before I took it apart. The seat and volcano seem fine, should I try a reseat of all the parts or should I get a new HP seat and Volcano?

Any thoughts

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Bryan
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:28 am

IP on a Phoenix should lock up solid at 130 to 135. Getting a seat to seat again after it has been taken out is a challenge and does not often work. I'd say your volcano orifice is fine unless you can see damage to the sealing edge. I suspect you need only a HP seat and you are good to go. While you have it apart I'd replace the O-ring and backup washer in the crown block as well.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Herman
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:40 am

Make sure the Phoenix is clean inside. A cotton swab is not the best idea since cotton threads can come off of it and are darn near impossible to see. One loose thread in the HP chamber can cause you all sorts of grief, a good blast of air helps insure nothing is remaining in the nozzle. I would also replace the crown block oring and make sure you properly lube it.
Herman

jsmall
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:02 pm

I looked on the VDH website for a Phoenix HP seat and it didn't jump out at me as being sold there. can you point me to a link or tell is there is a seat number and mfg available at my LDS

Thanks
John

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Herman
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:28 pm

Same one used in many USD/AL regs like the Conshelf. Titan, Legend and others plus the Kraken, Cyclone and RAM.
Any AL dealer has them.....assuming you can get them to sell you one.
Link below to the VDH ones

https://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/ ... /p/8406952
Herman

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:58 pm

jsmall wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:02 pm
I looked on the VDH website for a Phoenix HP seat and it didn't jump out at me as being sold there. can you point me to a link or tell is there is a seat number and mfg available at my LDS

Thanks
John
Phoenix First Stage service kit- everything you will need.

https://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/ ... p/27716718
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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Herman
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:29 pm

Well Duhhh, did not think of looking for a Phoenix service kit. :)
Herman

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Bryan
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Re: Phoenix Service Question

Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:14 pm

From the part description in the website store. If there is a way I can make it more obvious please let me know.

Fits Royal Aqua-Master, Conshelf, Titan, Phoenix, Cyclone, Argonaut, Trieste and MR12

https://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/ ... /p/8406952
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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