menemsha1968
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Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:16 am

Does any one know were I can obtain a mouthpiece for my RAM that has a built in switchable valve to open or block the mouth port, the way a re-breather mouthpiece is designed? Is there a mouthpiece from a particular re-breather that will fit the hoses of a RAM?
Thanks!

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Bryan
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:48 pm

Luis and I have been working on one off and on for a couple of years now. We decided the Argonaut had to get finished 1st. We plan on getting it done in 2015 if funds are available to move past the rapid prototyping stage.
You can use a mouthpiece from a rebreather or the simple VDH mouthpiece plug.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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rhwestfall
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:49 am

http://www.diveseekers.com/mouthpiece_d ... r-r532.htm :shock:

Yikes!!!!

Mouthpiece plug seems an appropriate solution.

Though I am curious as to what you guys are cooking up.....
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

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Bryan
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:14 am

We are trying to take advantage of some of the tooling I have already purchased and use the current wagon wheels and valves which will help to keep the cost down but the retail price I'm not sure of. It won't be anywhere near $260.00 though!
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

menemsha1968
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:57 am

$260 for the Drager mouthpiece?!!! Good grief, they sure are proud of that one, aren't they? I wonder if the hose inlet/outlets are the correct size for my RAM hoses. Does any one know if they are, or if/what other brand of rebreather is compatible? Hopefully Bryan will be able to offer one in the near future. It will be designed specifically for our regulators, and will be the ideal choice.

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Mistralopitheque
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:17 am

(bumping this thread as Bryan posted pics on Facebook).
Never seen any twinhose regulator issued with a DSV, never felt the need for one...
It makes sense on a rebreather (even is a necessity there) but on a OC-regulator??

So I am curious....why would you need a DSV when diving a twinhose?


If asked, I would rather vote for the reissue of this design, the most comfortable mouthpiece there ever was :

Image

Your thoughts?
OWNER OF Argonaut KRAKEN #14-017

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Herman
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:55 am

The DSV is not really for diving but for getting to and from the dive on the surface. As an example, a number of us do drift diving in Cozumel which often requires us to be on the surface for a good bit of time waiting for the boat to come pick us up. Without some way of shutting off the mouthpiece we are constantly fighting to keep the reg from freeflowing either by holding the MP under the water(occupies a hand), plugging it (must have one with you) or just keeping it in our mouths(can't talk). It is a pain to have to do any of those. If the reg had a DSV, we could simple switch it to off and not have to deal with freeflows. On the Kraken, it is just the next logical piece to make it as modern as possible.
Herman

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Mistralopitheque
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:26 am

Herman wrote:The DSV is not really for diving but for getting to and from the dive on the surface. As an example, a number of us do drift diving in Cozumel which often requires us to be on the surface for a good bit of time waiting for the boat to come pick us up. Without some way of shutting off the mouthpiece we are constantly fighting to keep the reg from freeflowing either by holding the MP under the water(occupies a hand), plugging it (must have one with you) or just keeping it in our mouths(can't talk). It is a pain to have to do any of those. If the reg had a DSV, we could simple switch it to off and not have to deal with freeflows. On the Kraken, it is just the next logical piece to make it as modern as possible.
I agree on improving the Kraken, but any feature overload would be detrimental to both the feeling and the reliability:

A DSV-mouthpiece is sticking out your mouth quite fairly and allows for increased leverage on your gums and teeth. It is a common problem on rebreathers, where you have to weigh down the hoses and use neckbands to take some stress off. It is also one of the major turn-offs of the Aqualung Mistral's mouthpiece. You basically need to use a big deep mouthpiece (JAX type) to counter the leverage generated by it sticking out so much.

Reliability wise, I am against any O-Ring that does not need to be. A DSV has at least two O-Rings that are under stress from friction. Add some grit and sand to that and you'll get leaks quite rapidly.

Equipment should never be an excuse for improper technique. Divers were taught for decades how to safely dive without a DSV.
I don't know if it was taught differently in the US, but in France you'd just put an arm through the breathing loop. That holds the mouthpiece at breast-level under the water and no free-flowing.
Personally, I do quite some dives where I wait to picked up too, but never needed that shut-off. You sit out your deco-stops under the SMB, and during that time the boat usually closes in on you. Once your done, you surface, swim those few meters to the boat and get out. There's actually very little time bobbing around on the surface. If I had to wait longer, I'd put my arm in the loop and switch to my snorkel. So if you ask me - no DSV!
OWNER OF Argonaut KRAKEN #14-017

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Bryan
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:01 am

No plans to reproduce the Aqua Stop mouthpiece. DSV style mouthpiece for the Argonaut in 2015 YES :D
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Mistralopitheque
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:12 am

They didn't use DSVs on Calypso :-P
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Mistralopitheque
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:50 am

.... but then, they didn't use Krakens either... :)
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Ron
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Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:57 am

If it makes you feel any better, I don't see the need for one either. I get that tons of people want them, so the store should make and carry them, but to me I just don't see a need to use one either. I just put my arm through the hose loop, so the mouthpiece is under my arm pit. Still, I get that people want them.

I don't get wireless transmitters and air integrated computers either. Maybe it is just me.

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The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed. -JYC

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:33 pm

My 10 year old son asked me what was new on VDH since apparently every time he sees me looking at the phone I'm reading the forum.I was trying to explain the double hose free flow issue and why it would be nice to have some sort of lever at the mouthpiece to shut off the flow of air from the tank. He thought about it for half a second and then asked why people don't just get rid the exhaust hose and move the second stage to the end of the single remaining hose. "Wouldn't that solve the problem dad?." Apparently I have failed at imparting to him the history and mystique and cool-factor of the double hose. I shall continue working on him.
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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Bryan
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Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:24 pm

Lol :)
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

menemsha1968
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Location: Marine City MI

Re: Mouthpiece for Double Hose

Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:10 pm

What is the regulator the mouthpiece depicted in the above diagram from?

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