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Bryan
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What would your advice be ?

Sun May 29, 2016 10:43 am

After we get some replies to the post I'll add more information..This is an actual question I received the other day. It is not a knock on the diver! He was smart enough to ask the question which I give him an A+ for. This is something that all divers new to double hose can learn from. (probably a few experienced ones as well)

Good afternoon gentlemen,
After having rebuilt my DA Aqua master using the Cyclone first stage and HPR second stage, I was able to take it to the quarry today. I thought I had it tuned properly, but breathing was somewhat difficult. The IP is set to 135, but not having the proper gauges to measure the cracking pressure, is there a trick/bench test way to set the second stage cracking pressure, other than trial and error? Otherwise, it performed flawless, thanks for having the parts to rebuild this unit.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

jrltenn
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Re: What would your advice be ?

Sun May 29, 2016 2:15 pm

I'm sure if I'd been smart enough to ask like this guy there is probably a better way but I tend to go with what I know and use what I've got. I put it on a small pony and submerged it slowly diagram down in a Rubbermaid tote full of water. Same way I've always done my single hose regs. Short of something purpose built that's all I know. But there are those who know far more than me !

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Bryan
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Re: What would your advice be ?

Sun May 29, 2016 4:59 pm

True there a lot of ways to check cracking effort..... But even before we get to that......
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

swimjim
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Re: What would your advice be ?

Sun May 29, 2016 5:00 pm

The regulator is more then likely just fine. I'm willing to bet that he dove it with a BC putting the regulator not only too far away from his chest cavity, but too far up behind his head. Therefor I would have asked how the regulator was mounted and on down the line. Even dropping his tank down some would probably have helped his situation even with a BC. A DAAM with a Cyclone, HPR and a DBE is one smokin' regulator. It's why I refer to that set up as a Hot DAAM. It should be a little forgiving. In short I would investigate how the reg was worn and take that path. It's a well worn one.

Jim

jrltenn
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Location: Jonesborough TN

Re: What would your advice be ?

Sun May 29, 2016 5:36 pm

Sorry misread the intent of the question...

kworkman
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Re: What would your advice be ?

Sun May 29, 2016 7:53 pm

I agree with swimjim. Several times I've been frustrated with breathing only to realize I have the placement to high. My tanks ride up in the water and if I think its low enough, it usually isnt. Night and day the difference of proper tank placement.

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rhwestfall
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Re: What would your advice be ?

Mon May 30, 2016 8:25 am

Isn't 135 high? Roberts says 110....

home made manometer..... I think it was Herman that had a detail on one....

btw - is the mouthpiece valve stuck to the cage?
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

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Bryan
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Re: What would your advice be ?

Mon May 30, 2016 9:07 am

rhwestfall wrote:Isn't 135 high? Roberts says 110....

home made manometer..... I think it was Herman that had a detail on one....

btw - is the mouthpiece valve stuck to the cage?

130-135 is perfect for the Cyclone which is a modern updated balanced first stage.

Roberts did recommend the USD spec of 110 for non balanced first stages......In my opinion setting it the traditional way gives a bit better performance.
CLICK HERE

Herman did have a nice write up about his homemade manometer

Mouthpiece valve would be something to check
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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captain
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Re: What would your advice be ?

Mon May 30, 2016 10:16 am

Once I get the IP stable at 135 from there on is trial and error. I tighten the adjustment nut on the horseshoe until it starts to slightly free flow then loosen it slowly until it stops. I put on the diaghpram and top can and again listen for a free flow. If I hear a free flow I back off the horseshoe nut a flat or two and try again. I do it as many times as necessary until there is no free flow, I set it aside for a couple of days and check it again. If a free flow doesn't reoccur I call it good. Although I have a manometer I don't worry about checking cracking pressure. Cracking pressure is what it is if everything is set right to begin with.
Captain

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Bryan
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Re: What would your advice be ?

Mon May 30, 2016 11:10 am

Thank you Captain.

When you have a regulator outfitted with a Cyclone balanced first stage and an HPR 2nd stage you have an awesome regulator that will flow enough air for multiple divers. Even if your lever height is off a little the HPR compensates well for that.

Below is my reply to the diver

Before we get too far into the regulator, please review these items in the link below. I find regulator placement to be the most common reason for complaints that a double hose breathes hard. If this is cannot in any way be the cause we can look at other things.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qbne1wr0ty8u ... llABa?dl=0

I'll follow up in a bit with his reply.....Wanna take a guess as to what it was?
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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antique diver
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Re: What would your advice be ?

Mon May 30, 2016 7:12 pm

Cylinder valve facing away from diver?
The older I get the better I was.

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Bronze06
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Re: What would your advice be ?

Tue May 31, 2016 1:50 pm

Double check IP again to see if there is any difference since you did it the last time. Get the reg down to your shoulder blades on your BC so that the top of the reg barely touches (if at all) the back of your head when you draw your head back toward your shoulder blades (look at the sky) when donning your gear. Fine tune your second stage horse shoe just as the Captain said to do. You should have EASY cracking effort when tuned correctly. 90% of the time if a DH reg. is hard breathing it is usually the 2nd stage adjustment IMO.
"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

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Bryan
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Re: What would your advice be ?

Tue May 31, 2016 2:09 pm

Bryan wrote:Thank you Captain.

When you have a regulator outfitted with a Cyclone balanced first stage and an HPR 2nd stage you have an awesome regulator that will flow enough air for multiple divers. Even if your lever height is off a little the HPR compensates well for that.

Below is my reply to the diver

Before we get too far into the regulator, please review these items in the link below. I find regulator placement to be the most common reason for complaints that a double hose breathes hard. If this is cannot in any way be the cause we can look at other things.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qbne1wr0ty8u ... llABa?dl=0

I'll follow up in a bit with his reply.....Wanna take a guess as to what it was?
Reply from the diver


I was using this with my Dacor Nautilius CVS, which positioned the reg way too high and far from my back. That explains it. Will have to give it another go with another rig that'll place it properly between the shoulder blades.

I"m really glad the diver reached out and asked the question......With more and more divers getting into double hose diving this fundamental issue keeps coming up no matter how many times I write about it, post links to information or E-mail PDF's with pictures and links.....

You can have the most highly tuned double hose on the planet and you will never overcome basic physics......IP, lever height, HPR, Phoenix, Argonaut, cracking effort super krypton coated demand levers.... its all secondary to getting the regulators positioned correctly on your back to begin with.
We need to be good stewards when working with new double hose divers especially when talking with folks who are interested in getting their first double hose regulator.....DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST.....

My thanks again to the diver who let me share his story......I really appreciate you letting me share with everyone with the hope that we can help others get started off right.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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antique diver
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First Name: Bill
Location: North-Central Texas

Re: What would your advice be ?

Tue May 31, 2016 5:18 pm

Hi jrltenn,
I think your next dive with that fine regulator will be a lot more fun. Happy Divin'.
The older I get the better I was.

swimjim
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First Name: Jim
Location: Belgium WI

Re: What would your advice be ?

Tue May 31, 2016 6:27 pm

Bryan wrote:
Bryan wrote:Thank you Captain.

When you have a regulator outfitted with a Cyclone balanced first stage and an HPR 2nd stage you have an awesome regulator that will flow enough air for multiple divers. Even if your lever height is off a little the HPR compensates well for that.

Below is my reply to the diver

Before we get too far into the regulator, please review these items in the link below. I find regulator placement to be the most common reason for complaints that a double hose breathes hard. If this is cannot in any way be the cause we can look at other things.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qbne1wr0ty8u ... llABa?dl=0

I'll follow up in a bit with his reply.....Wanna take a guess as to what it was?
Reply from the diver


I was using this with my Dacor Nautilius CVS, which positioned the reg way too high and far from my back. That explains it. Will have to give it another go with another rig that'll place it properly between the shoulder blades.

I"m really glad the diver reached out and asked the question......With more and more divers getting into double hose diving this fundamental issue keeps coming up no matter how many times I write about it, post links to information or E-mail PDF's with pictures and links.....

You can have the most highly tuned double hose on the planet and you will never overcome basic physics......IP, lever height, HPR, Phoenix, Argonaut, cracking effort super krypton coated demand levers.... its all secondary to getting the regulators positioned correctly on your back to begin with.
We need to be good stewards when working with new double hose divers especially when talking with folks who are interested in getting their first double hose regulator.....DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST.....

My thanks again to the diver who let me share his story......I really appreciate you letting me share with everyone with the hope that we can help others get started off right.
Thought so... :D

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