Phoenix RAM IP Issue

[georgeaustin]

Background:
Dived the reg all summer, maybe 100 dives so there is about 350 dives on the reg total.
I have been lax about checking IP but not about can inspection and cleaning over the course of 350 dives.
No excuse for not checking IP on a regular schedule.

I was in South Carolina working from late September to December and obviously no dives on the reg since September.
While checking my gear yesterday for an upcoming trip to Cozumel, I installed the safe second, spg and LP inflator to the reg and connected to my tank for leak inspection.

After 10 or 12 seconds, the safe second starts to hiss. I connected my IP gauge to the LP inflator and the IP ran up to 240 psi.
Checked it again, - same -

I disassembled the cans and looked around a little bit - then I backed off spring tension about a quarter turn, reconnected to the tank and the IP was at 110 psi and holding, rebounding, holding - OK-

Turned the allen head adjuster clockwise a little, turned on air, checked, purged, shut off air, turned a little etc, etc, Got the IP at 130 psi and rebounds good, left air on for 20 minutes to check for creep = no creep - sealed everything back up and am guardingly satisfied that all is OK -

Question,: is it somewhat common for things inside the first stage to get a little sticky after nearly 3 months of sitting static?
I had no issues diving almost every day all summer - but my main concern is that there might be a more comprehensive inspection and service absolutely required before heading off to Devils Throat and Santa Rosa Wall in 4 weeks - no time to send the reg in and get it back in time -

I am taking my Conshelf 14 first stage though - just in case.

[luis]

Question,: is it somewhat common for things inside the first stage to get a little sticky after nearly 3 months of sitting static?
I had no issues diving almost every day all summer - but my main concern is that there might be a more comprehensive inspection and service absolutely required before heading off to Devils Throat and Santa Rosa Wall in 4 weeks - no time to send the reg in and get it back in time -

I am taking my Conshelf 14 first stage though - just in case.

Not normally, but if there is corrosion due to salt water intrusion, sure, anything can happen. How does the inlet filter looks? Is there any sign of corrosion or contamination on the inlet?

[luis]

After 10 or 12 seconds, the safe second starts to hiss. I connected my IP gauge to the LP inflator and the IP ran up to 240 psi.

With that IP pressure, your DH second stage should have also been leaking.

I disassembled the cans and looked around a little bit - then I backed off spring tension about a quarter turn, reconnected to the tank and the IP was at 110 psi and holding, rebounding, holding - OK-

This could also be a symptom of a bad first stage main spring, but you normally see that when you are adjusting the IP up and the spring gets compressed past its linear region. You would normally not see this behavior on a regulator that was previously working fine and no one was trying to raise the IP.


I still think that some internal corrosion could be the cause. The corrosion could be minimal and you might have loosen it up and it may be perfectly OK for a while... "Do you feel lucky?"

[georgeaustin]

Not feeling lucky at the moment - lost a good friend at Catalina Island on Tuesday last. She's still in the water as they have not recovered her yet.
The inlet filter is going to come out tomorrow and I will have a look see inside - wouldn't be too surprised to see some salt crystals in there.

[luis]

I am sorry about your loss.

If you are comfortable opening it up, I would open both sides of the first stage (without unscrewing the Phoenix from the main body) and clean the parts. You definitely want to replace the high pressure seat and probably the balancing chamber O-ring. Since you are there, you could replace the Intermediate Pressure diaphragm, but they can sometimes be reused.

There is no need to unscrew the Phoenix from the main body. If you leave that connection alone, servicing the Phoenix is just like servicing a Conshelf.

I assume you are using an HPR second stage. That is just removed as a subassembly cartridge and you don’t have to disassemble it to replace the LP seat.

Unless it is heavily corroded, this is basically a quick rebuilt and it can be done in very little time.

Just be extremely careful not to scratch any sealing surfaces and be careful when you are reassembling it.

If there was an issue with the first stage main spring, it will show up if you try to adjust the IP towards the 150 psi range, but it should work OK at a lower range around 130 psi. You can use it like that , but eventually you would want to replace the spring. You can replace that spring at any time.

[Bryan]

Something I have observed many times is folks checking IP don't do it correctly. They hook up the ip gauge and then start wildly purging or tapping on the diaphragm rapid fire style. This is not how a regulator was designed to cycle and I have seen the IP on many regulators go past the normal range when cycled like this. Not saying you did or are doing your this way, just sharing from past experience. Many times when first assembling a regulator and adjusting the IP I have had the IP go way high at first but after bleeding it down and cycling it a few times in a normal breathing pattern it squares away and seats correctly.
After I get it set where I want it, I leave it pressurized for 10-20 minutes and check for excessive IP creep. Then I shut off the air, purge the regulator and come back the next day and do the same thing. If the IP is stable, I run it on the quick set rig for a few minutes to insure proper seat break in. The IP gauge stays on the regulator while I'm running it so I can observe if the IP is going out of range while in use. The quick set rig does not give you deep cycle breathing as an actual diver would but the interval between cycles is sufficient to allow the IP to rebound. You can do the same thing without one by simply breathing normally from the regulator for a few minutes while watching your IP gauge.

[Bryan]

Good info on HP and LP seating.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fwxneiqler4ws ... g.pdf?dl=0

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

[georgeaustin]

I removed the above parts for inspection - plus I removed the soft seat which is absolutely filthy. The seating groove in the soft seat is well centered around the hole. At the bottom of the bore is all manner of dirt and nastiness. The walls of the bore have salt powder and the beginnings of green corrosion.
The above parts pictured have salt and nastiness - will do a little vinegar and water solution for a soak. I suppose I will take Q-tips and really clean up the bore before reassembly - I was really quite surprised to see this much crap in there

BTW - The soft seat has a fine amount of silicone on it - do I reapply a light coat onto the soft seat before reassembly? Thanks.

[georgeaustin]

[img][/img]

[Bryan]

Put a thin film of silicone all the way around the stem of the HP seat. No need to go overboard though.
Don't put any on the seat face.
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[Herman]

I don't recommend Qtips, foam cosmetic applicators are fine but Qtips or similar cotton swabs can/will leave cotton threads that can be a problem. It least blow the chamber out with air if you use them.

[georgeaustin]

I'll bet that was compressor oil not silicone slopped all over the HP seat -

[swimjim]

I don't recommend Qtips, foam cosmetic applicators are fine but Qtips or similar cotton swabs can/will leave cotton threads that can be a problem. It least blow the chamber out with air if you use them.

Air from a tank or scuba compressor. Your Home Depot "Portercable" will contaminate things................

[antique diver]

I'll bet that was compressor oil not silicone slopped all over the HP seat -

Good point. A final filter can get wet and oily from poor/no maintenance and spew some really grungy emulsion of water, oil and filter media. Which means it may be a good time to start looking into your air cylinders, starting with ones known to have been used with that reg.