DA Aquamaster/Phoenix Rebuild Question

[pclarke1]

Forgive me if this has already been answered. I did a quick search and did not find it.

I am a new member, and now the proud owner of a DA Aquamaster Serial Number 257919 West Warner edition. My intention is to rebuilt it and return this to service over the course of the next couple of months.

My question is, if I rebuild it, then decide to go the Phoenix route will I be replacing much of my good work. Or should I make the decision now and either go Phoenix or stay "standard". Either way this will probably not become my main dive regulator, that honor will likely stay with my 1990 Dacor Pacer XLP/Conshelf SEA combo.

[luis]

The Phoenix replaces the first stage. If or when you do that, you might as well replace the second stage with an HPR. At that point you are only reusing 6 or 7 of the original parts (including the cans).

Even if you don't change to the Phoenix, you can change to the HPR second stage and have a very significant improvement in performance and convenience.

That being said, cleaning the original parts should not be that big of an effort and even if you don't end up using them, it is best if you stored them clean.



BTW, this thread probably belongs in the Phoenix area, not the pure vintage area. I can move it later.

Welcome to VDH.

[Herman]

Welcome to the board and to DH diving.
The answer is pretty simple, you can upgrade your 2nd or 3rd DH reg, it's a disease and no one ends up with just one. To some extent I am kiddng but truth is most of us end up with several.

To answer your question, almost everything you use to service or upgrade a DA
is reused when adding a Phoenix. This is true wheather you do a like original rebuild or go whole hog with a HPR, new diaphragm and a duckbill eliminator. There is one inexpensive gasket and a filter that is not reused plus any internal parts in the HP nozzle that you choose to replace. The total cost of those is under $25. If (or more likely when) you get a second reg, the rebuilt nozzle can be installed in the second reg if you like. The same holds true if you were to upgrade it with a Cyclone nozzle.

If you choose to hold off on the Phoenix, I would suggest you at least install the HPR and the single stage main diaphragm that is recommended for the HPR (which can not be used with the original second stage). They are easier to install and adjust than the original equipment and will make a huge improvement in performance of the reg. The 2 stage version (with the tabs)of the replacement diaphragm will work with the HPR or the original second stage but there is no need for it with the HPR. Replacing the main diapragm is pretty much a requirement reguardless of how the original looks. The originals are vastly inferior to the VDH silicone ones and while the origial will operate with the HPR, it is a huge loss in performance if you do.

The Duckbill eliminator can be installed and used with any combination you choose or the original type duckbill will work with any combination as well.

The one accessory that you may not have considered that I highly recommend for any DH (unless you are doing an original restore) is a band clamp. Those C clips are a PITA and discourage you from inspecting the internal area of the reg on a regular basis.
While ordering parts, I would also suggest you get a hookah port adapter. You will need some way of checking/setting IP on the reg both after the rebuild as well as for perodic testing over the years. With the adapter, you can connect any LP hose accessory like an IP guage plus it can be used for an octo or LP inflator.

[Ron]

Keep in mind too, to Herman's point, that the US Diver's catalog offered the band clamp in every catalog since 1956...so it is equally as valid if you are an anal retentive purist.

[pclarke1]

Firstly, thank you all for your responses they have been most enlightening.

I am not a purest, "anal" or otherwise, so my objective is to restore my reg to service, but I don't need it to be 100% original.

I think my initial strategy will be to do a non Phoenix update to this one, then if I catch the bug get another then Phoenix that one.

Just so I understand exactly what I need to order.

Is this the HPR that Luis and Herman were talking about.
http://vintagedoublehose.com/index.php? ... d=11100894

Herman also mentioned the single stage main diaphragm. Is this the correct one.
http://vintagedoublehose.com/index.php? ... d=20839048

Sorry to be such a noob, but I just want to be sure I understand.

[Herman]

Yep, those are the parts you need.
If you like, post your parts list and we can look it over and see if we see anything missing. Even if your hoses are reasonably good, the new ones are a lot softer and worth the investment.

Once you get the reg rebuilt it's time to dive it. I highly suggest you do a search on the board for post relating to diving with a double hose reg. They are different from single hose regs and require proper placement on the body. Sticking them on your normal BC will not work well. It will supply you gas but odds are you will not be happy with its performance. Modern BCs do not allow the regulator to be located in the proper position for optiminal operation.

[pclarke1]

Thanks for the advice Herman. I will be sure to put together a bill of material for review, as well as a list of tools that I am proposing to purchase prior to placing any orders.

[Drado]

Hey Pclarke, out of curiosity, where'd you get your DH? Those puppies are relatively rare in this region. If you ever find yourself here in the Philippines, I've got two PRAMs we can use

[pclarke1]

After reading the FAQ I decided on the DA Aquamaster. I have always been a US Divers fan (hate that they have moved that brand to the toy end of the range) and obtained my regulator through the magic of Ebay. I have a mailbox service in MI that I use for my purchases. Drado, I would love to come visit the Philipines to go diving with you. I would make you the same offer of Singapore, but alas while the water is warm and fish are plentiful, the visibility is quite rubbish.

[pclarke1]

Per Herman's suggestion I have put together my shopping list. I have decided to break my project into 3 phases, cans, hoses and phoenix (cost and wife thing). Here is the shopping list I have put together. I would appreciate any comments on the items in my lists and to the order of the tasks I have established. My hoses and mouth piece is is great shape (but I do plan on replacing them). Most likely I will stay in the pool until I have phase 2 completed.

Phase 1
Service Kit US Divers / Voit two stage regulators
First stage filter US Divers / Voit double hose regulators
Mouthpiece valves
Duckbill Eliminator
Single Stage/ HPR 2 stage Main Diaphragm
HPR Second Stage
Band Clamp Stainless Steel

Phase 2
IP Gauge for Two Stage Regulators. Attaches to Hookah Port
Hookah port adaptor for US Divers / Voit two stage regulators
Improved wagon wheels and mouthpiece valves.
Black hoses
Curved US Divers mouthpiece
Banjo fitting for double hose regulator

Phase 3
Phoenix First stage

Another question (and I am not complaining about the cost). It seems like it is cheaper to go with the Ultimate Phoenix Option at $220 which includes "HPR includes regulator service, Phoenix and HPR install/setup, new main diaphragm, duckbill eliminator and new hose/mouthpiece assembly". The parts alone for this upgrade seem like more than the cost that would be charged for the parts & service with the Phoenix option. What am I not understanding (it seems like a deal too good to be true)?

[Herman]

I think you may be misinterputing the price...the $220 is IN ADDITION to the price of the Phoenix for a total of $445 (if I remember to Phoenix price correctly), it does not include the Phoenix itself.

I would modify your sequence some or at least move the hoses and mouthpiece to the first phase, even if you need to swap around things like the duckbill eliminator (you would need to add a duckbill if you postpone the DBE) and HPR. The old hoses just don't cut it unless you are making a wall hanger that gets taken to the pool once in a while, if you intend to dive it, IMO new hoses and MP are a must have even if I have to put off other parts. Another part you should consider is a new HP seat, yours may be OK or you may be able to resurface it but considering the price and the shipping cost/time to you, basically it's cheap insurance if you do end up needing it. If you plan to do the service work yourself, an IP gauge is mandatory. IP is the heart beat of any regulator and you can't setup or test one without a gauge. There are a couple of ways to accomplish this, first is get one of the deticated DH IP gauges Bryan offers http://www.vintagedoublehose.com/index. ... d=34445889 . The second is to get one of the hookah port adapters http://www.vintagedoublehose.com/index. ... id=8417148 , then use a common LP inflator hose and one of the inexpensive IP gauges that connect to them http://www.vintagedoublehose.com/index. ... d=24561783 . The adapters can do double duty as a LP port and an IP gauge connection. If you don't need the LP port, they will also accept a standard port plug, I tend to keep them on my DAs with a port plug in them in place of the original plug. If you have other regulators you really should have an IP gauge to check them with anyway so using that option gives you a multipurpose tool.

[pclarke1]

Thaks Herman,
I was looking at the $220 just being the parts and labor in addition to the $225 Phoenix. When I add the HPR, Diaphram, Duckbill and hoses I come up to around $200 for just the parts. So with the installation that is one hell of a deal. However I want to do this my self.

My plan for phase 1 is to get it put together and pool test. I want to make sure I can make this work efore I throw too mch money into it. I have no plans on really diving it until I replace the hoses and get the banjo (and backplate), It wont be going into regular rotation until the Phoenix. I will move the IP gauge purchase into phase 1 and add a new HP seat. Thanks for the advice

[Nemrod]

There is another option, not to side track this adventure but I had a Royal with a bad HP volcano orifice. I replaced with the Cyclone first and now it is all happy again. I have nothing against a good DA but somehow I have become a RAM guy.

In terms of performance increase, the Super Flex diaphragm and the HPR are huge!!!!!!!

Well gotta get back to the tractor, the tire went flat and the bead unseated and I am mad. I used to like tractors, I used to like DAs too

Nem

[pclarke1]

I considered adding in the cyclone into the mix. However ultimately I really want the additional ports, so it is destination Phoenix for me. Perhaps on my 2nd project However I do want to experience the beastie in its various forms first. So I am going to do the can project first. Test it in the pool (I live in a condo with a big pool at my front door that is only 5 ft deep), once I am happy with what I have, I will replace the hoses etc and take it to a deeper pool first, then shallow open water with a bail out bottle. Once I have had my fun, then I will Phoenix. I will of course have my work checked by a local service tech at each stage.

[crimediver]

I suspect your local service tech will be as helpful as tits on a bull...