Kracken - so, what is "different"

[rhwestfall]

What can one expect as a difference (or differences) from the "old" double hose units, the "updated" units, and the "new" Kracken?

[luis]

Items 3,4,5,6,8,9 in the list below are new. The Phoenix incorporated some of these improvements, but the Argonaut builds on all that previous experience and puts it all together into a well integrated package.

The flow path between the first stage and second stage in the main body is also optimized.

Item 5 is basically the HPR second stage with several improvements on the orifice design.


The Argonaut is a completely new double hose regulator which retains an attractive vintage appearance, but incorporates state-of-the-art modern features.
1.) 1st Stage relies upon a balanced diaphragm featuring high flow capability. This engineering feature effectively limits intermediate pressure change; thus guaranteeing effortless, consistent performance with any tank pressure or any dive depth.
2.) 1st and 2nd stages are environmentally isolated to insure absolute reliability in all weather and water conditions.
3.) The regulator contains 3 low pressure ports for optimal hose positioning. This feature allows the diver to use any variety of low pressure accessories. The ports are industry standard 3/8” UNF sized.
4.) 1st stage also contains a high pressure port allowing the diver to use either a stand-alone submersible pressure gauge, or a transmitter unit. The port is again, the current industry standard 7/16” UNF size.
5.) Totally modern 2nd stage design that incorporates features such as: adjustable seat, large ultra flexible silicone diaphragm using a lever geometry designed for optimal mechanical advantage with low friction, and adjustable venturi assistance. The replaceable and adjustable hard seat (volcano orifice) permits ultra-fine tuning.
6. Internal parts that are chosen for maximum durability and ease of availability. Food grade silicone utilized for items such as hoses, mouthpiece, and low pressure diaphragms for extra-long life and easy maintenance.
7.) 1st and 2nd stages manufactured from attractively triple-plated brass alloys, with lightweight, corrosion proof materials used for the housing.
8.) Main body interfacing surfaces sealed with an O-ring rather than a flat gasket.
9.) Effortless, natural breathing characteristics due to advanced design vacuum assisted venturi action, and a high flow/ ultra-low resistance exhaust system.
10.) In essence, a double hose regulator that displays the classic lines of a vintage model with the performance of a 21stcentury design.


The case is also new:
The Argonaut Kraken case is specifically designed to work with many more backpacks and backplates than most other double hose regulators.

The tapered shape of the front can is intended to reduce the chances for interference and the back can has a large cutout/ chamfer to provide more volume for a variety of different BC bladders/ wings.


The Argonaut will have a lot less interference with many backpacks and backplates, but you still don’t want a back plate or backpack that separate the tank away from your back.

[Bryan]

I would suggest taking the time to read the dozens of posts and topics on the subject. They are all posted in this section. By the time you are finished you will know all there is to know about the Argonaut Kraken.

[luis]

During the design process I spent a lot of time trying to improve on a number of details, but I have not had the chance to sit down and write them in one document. Now I have to go back and think about all the details that went into the design.

The list below is not organize or in any order. I will re arrange it later.

In addition to the features described above, there area number of other design improvements.

• The integration of both stages also allowed a much lower profile regulator than the Phoenix.


Improved seals:

• The regulator uses no gaskets anywhere (as opposed to the a RAM or DA). It was designed to reduce the number of sealed joint (to minimize possibility of leaks) and only modern designed O-ring seals are used.

• There is no join between the first and second stage. It is one piece.


Weight considerations:

• The integration of the 1st and 2nd stage into one streamlined body also allowed to reduce weight. The weight of the body was reduced as much as practical.

• With the use of a plastic can the over all weight is about 1/2 pound less than other double hose regulators. I will post exact weight comparison later.

• The weight is also better balanced and concentrated closer to the attachment yoke. It makes it easier to carry and much less cumbersome when installing on a tank.


Maintenance considerations:

• The main body was also designed with two parallel flat surface to make easy to hold on any vise or large wrench (padded surface is recommended to avoid scratches, but it is not essential).

• The first stage IP adjustment screw can be adjusted with a large screw driver or in the field you can even use a coin.

• All the edges are rounded (or chamfered) to reduce the chances of damage when hitting something (reduce nicks and dings).



There is more that I will add later when I have more time.

With more time I will also point out some of the trade-off decisions I had to make during the design process. There are always different ways to do things, but I tried to optimize the self imposed requirements that I felt were most important.

[rhwestfall]

Luis:

Thanks much for taking the time to condense that information. I'm looking forward to hearing more on the process, and what drove the choices. Hoping all continues on your anticipated timeline. I know there is much still to do.

Fundamentally, is there a performance difference from a well tuned vintage unit, and this one? Yes, there are numerous upgrades that improved the vintage units...

Thanks again.

Bob

[Bryan]

Divers using Phoenix/HPR equipped regulators are already throttling back on cracking effort as it possible to adjust it to less than .5" WC. So in that instance we already exceed the normal standard for "performance" Defining regulator performance in the traditional way is somewhat based on statistical manipulation by good advertising groups. Real versus perceived is another area entirely.
I think James showed what the Argonaut is capable of when pushed hard by a diver in excellent physical condition. Here is the link to that information which can also be found 7 posts below this topic.

Click Here

[luis]

The simple answer is: yes and no. A lot is going to depend on what you mean by a vintage regulator.

If it is a truly vintage regulator, the answer is immediately yes.

If you start talking about a Royal Aqua Master with new silicone diaphragm and an HPR second stage the answer is still yes, but it is not as definitive at this point (and that is not a true vintage regulator anymore).

For starters, the exhaust in the new Argonaut plastic case has been tested to be better than any previous DH (and probably any SH also), but I seriously doubt that most divers will notice on most dives.

The Argonaut case was specifically designed to enhance the venturi flow from the second stage. If you look at the venturi jet, it lines up with the horn and the horn is round to match the flow pattern of the yet.

You can use an Argonaut body (or a Phoenix/ HPR) in a metal can and get very good venturi flow assistance, but sometimes I find that I need to block some of the bleed air ports. With the new plastic cans there is no need to block any bleed air (you actually don’t want to or you get too much venturi).

The inhalation resistance (both cracking effort and sustained flow) of a Phoenix / HPR can be tuned to perform basically as good as an Argonaut (if everything is working fine). The Argonaut is proving to be very easy to adjust and very consistent in its performance.

With the Argonaut, both the 1st stage and 2nd stage volcano orifices can be replaced. This guaranties optimal performance at the most critical dynamic sealing interfaces. With a good volcano orifice, a good seal can be obtained without the need of adjusting (increasing) the spring force compression on the soft seat.

In reality, there is no short answer to that question. I have been working for the last 9 years (actually on an off for the last 42 years) on improving all of my regulators (and this is just a hobby for me). We have come a long way, but when it comes to performance, we have been approaching diminishing return for a while.

If you look at single hose regulators, they don’t even publish performance data in their advertising anymore. You are splitting hairs when measuring actual performance. At this point, human perception becomes the more important factor (and that is a very unreliable thing to measure).

Most of the breathing performance changes are so small that most divers will not be able to notice. One advantage is that this improvement on the Argonaut should be far more consistent than in a converted vintage regulator.

[luis]

I have had a few emails (one today) from Phoenix owners asking if they should buy an Argonaut. Below is what I wrote. The link is to this thread.


Argonaut versus Phoenix:
• It is lighter, it balances better, can tolerated abuse better without showing scratches.
• The hose routing is better as it is, but it can be easily optimized for dry-suit, etc.
• The second stage has a replaceable and adjustable volcano orifice.
• NO gaskets between 1st and 2nd stage
• NO issues with port orientation depending on the rotation of the 1st stage (where it stops)
• lower profile
• Etc...

Please read the thread below. Some of the differences are small, but there is a lot in the details.
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=7461


The Phoenix is a great regulator and it performs great, but there is no question that it evolved from available vintage parts. The Phoenix-HPR has been my favorite regulator for years...

The Argonaut is just what I consider an integrated, elegant design. It takes advantage of decades of knowledge and experience. I designed the entire regulator as complete system. You can even consider the back plate as part of the system.

I used as many standard of the shelf parts as possible to make it easier for the end used to source replacement parts (if needed), but I took into consideration how it all went together.

IMO, both the Phoenix-HPR and the Argonaut are great regulators. I will always have a few Phoenix-HPR around, but at this moment, they just happen to be collecting dust.

The bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with the Phoenix-HPR... If I didn't have my Argonauts, the Phoenix-HPR would be my favorite regulator. I personally think that every DH diver should have at least one of each.

[Superlite]

Luis's description of the Kraken is excellent. I'm looking forward to diving a Kraken really soon. I'll be hoping to dive (Kraken) one on the USS Oriskany later this year.

[Nemrod]

I just returned from a couple of weeks down in Florida. Several dives were a challenge and after having been spoiled by the Kraken in Cozumel last fall I definitely missed not having one of my own. My Phoenix is no daisy and is tuned to the limits of my capability and is a very capable regulator but all of the things that Luis has mentioned factually make the Kraken a superior regulator to any Phoenix. Do you need a Kraken, of course you do!

The Kraken is definitely going to be a better travel regulator with it's reduced weight and lower profile and simplified hose routing.

Soooo, there I was, having decided to do a SDI Solo Diver course and deciding to do it with double hose. I tell you, the one improvement any double hose can use is a shut off valve. But, I did manage an almost elegant mid water doff -swim-don and a passable good old fashioned doff and don on the sand bottom but I swear, my lungs inflated like a balloon and the mouthpiece managed to get away from me with an impressive show of bubbles. But, no problem, I wrassled it back under control and continued the dive.

I wish I had had the Kraken though, because, nothing has a higher drool factor than a Kraken!

Nem

[JES]

... I wish I had had the Kraken though, because, nothing has a higher drool factor than a Kraken!

Nem

Well said my friend!