Argonaut Kraken Annual Servicing?

[refrat]

Hi all
Incidentally I entered my username incorrectly and it should read "reefrat" instead of "refrat"...but whatever!

Re the much anticipated Kraken
I have looked at all the good information on VDH about the annual owner inspection of double hose regulators- but what about an actual regulator service (overhaul of first/ second stage and tune etc)?
Will this be a service offered by VDH for the Kraken regs or will there be service kits and a manual for suitably qualified persons to do it?
Cheers

[Bryan]

I will service what I sell and I fully support divers servicing their own equipment as I always have.
More information on the subject will be available soon.

[Bryan]

The first stage follows the traditional, reliable design of the Royal Aqua-Master, Conshelf and Phoenix. Service information is readily available for those.
The second stage is the robust and low maintenance HPR. Service and setup have been discussed extensively on the website form.

My Opinion

Qualified is a vastly overused term when discussing regulator servicing. 1/2 day spent in a meeting room with 2 coffee breaks a lunch break and a crappy power point presentation gets you a ink jet certificate that says you are "Qualified" to service X companies regulator. Not saying this is the case with every mfg but in the last 10 years it has become very prevalent. The dumbing down of regulator/equipment servicing is only exceeded by the dumbing down of the qualifications to be an instructor. 90% of the people have no business doing either.

Servicing a regulator just to say it's serviced is silly. Opening a regulator, taking out parts and general tinkering for no reason screws up more good regulators than it has ever fixed. Regulator working great......Leave it alone. Regulator starts acting up or performance has decreased.....Time to investigate

[crimediver]

I also feel the same way. Most of the reg problems I have had was when they came back from being serviced. I supervised a state underwater criminal investigation unit and we were required by policy to have regs serviced annually. I would send off regs to various shops, most with bad results. I even shipped them to out of state shops trying to find a good place with quick turn around times.I got one Conshelf 14 back that was missing the exhaust mushroom valve. It breathed good at the surface but was a wet breather underwater to say the least.

A lot of the regs were not adjusted properly and I even opened one second stage up after an overhaul and the diaphram was coated with dried silt. Obviously it had not been worked on and we were either being taken for a ride or it was overlooked. In any case we not getting good service and the regs were worse off than we we sent them in.

I once asked the LDS owner to get my used parts back as I was leery of their work. He came back with an assortment of crap he had lying on a bench and tried to pass them off as my parts. They were from an assortment of various regulators and that was the last time I went to that store. I did find one place that did a good job and their process was mostly an inspection and they fixed only what needed it. But they were the exception...

As a result of these bad experiences I started trying to work on my own gear and took some repair courses. Like Bryan said some of them did not teach you much. I bought the Airspeed Press books and got the manuals and just worked on my own stuff. I think I do a good job and all my regs work well after I get done, unlike what happened after the LDS had them. If I can do it so can anyone.

My personal regs I inspect and only fix what is needed. I check the IP, look for creep and take good preventative care by rinsing and never allowing water to entire the first stage.

In 1987 I bought a new US Divers SE2 reg and purposely have never had it overhauled. Other than a new HP seal due to a recall it is all original parts except for a few mouthpieces. It works as solidly now as it did when I bought it. I am not advocating this practice for everyone but I did this to just see how long it will keep ticking w/o a rebuild. The annual overhauls are a marketing gimmick. If you reg starts to get IP creep, leaks when performing a pre-dive suck test or bubbles when it should not it is time to go through it. Taking care of the reg is more important than an annual servicing.

[antique diver]

My Opinion

Qualified is a vastly overused term when discussing regulator servicing. 1/2 day spent in a meeting room with 2 coffee breaks a lunch break and a crappy power point presentation gets you a ink jet certificate that says you are "Qualified" to service X companies regulator. Not saying this is the case with every mfg but in the last 10 years it has become very prevalent. The dumbing down of regulator/equipment servicing is only exceeded by the dumbing down of the qualifications to be an instructor. 90% of the people have no business doing either.

re: Your Opinion

Your opinion about the half-day-half-trained regulator "technicians" and one-week-wonder inexperienced Instructors is shared in this household! I could say a lot more about those subjects after spending 31 years in the business smack in the middle of Dallas-Fort Worth area, but I think I'll just bite my tongue for now.

Well, maybe just one more comment... There sure were a lot of unqualified ignorant knuckleheads (and a couple of crooks) come in go in dozens of short-lived "dive boutiques" and dive dumps in this highly-populated area. That's about as kind as I can put it.

OK, now I probably should be fair and say that there are actually a few respectable facilities around here run by nice experienced good-hearted people with common sense, and with genuine hard-earned technical and instructional skills. I enjoy staying in touch with them, help most of them with their breathing air and gas systems, benefit from their knowledge and kindness, and refer my friends to them. I just stay away from the others.

[Nemrod]

Having now dug around in two Argonauts (and even put them back together again without left over parts--I think ). I just have to say that any COMPETENT regulator tech or anyone familiar with servicing their own equipment will have absolutely no problem with the Argonaut. It is exceptionally easy to set up. The first stage is a Titan/Conshelf and the second stage is not unlike a Conshelf, certainly anyone who can service/adjust a Conshelf or similar regulator can do an Argonaut.

The Argonaut is simple, easy to adjust and set up. There really are no tricks and unlike some regulators, it is set and forget, no fussing, fiddling, adjusting. Set it, forget it, go dive. It is so easy it is boring.

Nem

[Herman]

Having now dug around in two Argonauts (and even put them back together again without left over parts--I think ). I just have to say that any COMPETENT regulator tech or anyone familiar with servicing their own equipment will have absolutely no problem with the Argonaut. It is exceptionally easy to set up. The first stage is a Titan/Conshelf and the second stage is not unlike a Conshelf, certainly anyone who can service/adjust a Conshelf or similar regulator can do an Argonaut.

The Argonaut is simple, easy to adjust and set up. There really are no tricks and unlike some regulators, it is set and forget, no fussing, fiddling, adjusting. Set it, forget it, go dive. It is so easy it is boring.

Nem

Besides Bryan and Luis, I likely have more time with a Argo apart than anyone else and I completely agree with you Nem. That said, I do think some, for lack of a better term, "preventive maintenance" over and above normal cleaning is a good idea. By that I don't mean completely tearing it apart on some arbitrary time schedule or number of dive but rather a routine of checks and maintenance that keep it working well and gives you a heads up of the pending need for service. I do this to all my regs, new or old, single hose or double so there is nothing new or different there . For example, I check things like IP and cracking pressure before any dive trip and open up the cans on a DH after any extended dive trip for more thorough cleaning and to inspect for any corrosion. .If I see signs of excessive corrosion, wear or the IP or cracking pressure are not like I think they should be, then a full service is in order.

[refrat]

Thank you all for the usual comprehensive and concise responses. What Bryan and others are proposing makes sense to me, I am fastidious (my wife has another name for it- but I look after her gear as well so she is not complaining!) with cleaning my equipment and no matter how many dives I do it always looks like new inside and out. So it looks like the plan is to do the prescribed cleaning and checks, when it "needs" a service for whatever reason I will send it to Bryan.
Cheers!

[21]

[quote="Bryan"]....

Qualified is a vastly overused term when discussing regulator servicing. 1/2 day spent in a meeting room with 2 coffee breaks a lunch break and a crappy power point presentation gets you a ink jet certificate that says you are "Qualified" to service X companies regulator. Not saying this is the case with every mfg but in the last 10 years it has become very prevalent. The dumbing down of regulator/equipment servicing is only exceeded by the dumbing down of the qualifications to be an instructor. 90% of the people have no business doing either.

Servicing a regulator just to say it's serviced is silly. Opening a regulator, taking out parts and general tinkering for no reason screws up more good regulators than it has ever fixed. Regulator working great......Leave it alone. Regulator starts acting up or performance has decreased.....Time to investigate[/quote]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bryan ---So profound! So true!

So far as I can determine I was a member of the first or one of the first US Diver company sponsored "Equipment repair course." This free one week long course was created by Leslie "Tommy Thompson, (LA CO UW instructor)and presented at US Divers on Warner avenue in Santa Ana California in the mid 1960s. It covered regulator operation theory, function, trouble shooting and repair. We began the course on Monday morning and finished on Friday. I repeated the course several times just to remain abreast of the changes in equipment and to up grade my equipment using the latest US Divers internal parts

Some years later my then 12 year old son Sam IV who began diving at 5 also completed the course which was taught at that time by Bryan Miller who is now the east coast sales representative for US divers. As the youngest person ever to complete the course he was treated as a minor celebrity Everyday he would ride his bicycle to US Divers, every day he would return with a US Divers item, sweat shirt, tee shirt, small knife etc. The last day John Cronin, who was at that time GM for US Divers, called him into the office where he presented Sam IV with a complete set of US Divers FM&S, and introduced him to Cousteau who gave him his latest book which he inscribed to him.

Of course it didn't hurt that I was the official US divers Underwater Instructor and often consulted to US Divers.

Sam IV was a cut above the norm became outstanding high school athlete, Eagle Scout, Scout master of the second SCUBA diving troop in US then on to med school where he graduated with honors. He completed two post docs; a 4 year ER and 2 year Hyperbaric med at Scripps and is as of January 1, the ER/Hyperbaric med department head of the local hospital.

(Nothing like growing your own hyperbaric doctor)

Now we have fuzzy faced kids whose knuckles drag the ground when they walk, who speak in grunts and groans, who squeaked through high school under the "No kid left behind" and six months ago discovered the world of diving and enrolled in a day long course in SCUBA regulator repair conducted at DEMA which they probably don't understand and will sleep most of course but are now working as "Certified SCUBA Repair" technicians.

No thank you-- I will repair my own

SDM