Probably asked and answered

[treasureman]

Are the users of the first version of Pheonix find there is a difference in performance to the second version of Pheonix. If there is a difference what would that be

[luis]

The Mod-II and follow Phoenix have a much better flow path.

The difference that I have measured and observed is that the IP recovery during the breathing cycle is much faster and the IP drop is also less. This works out in over all better performance.

In several discussions we have had (with Bryan and some others) we have concluded that with the later Phoenix we get extremely good performance even with a lower IP setting.

As a matter of fact with my original RAM and my old Phoenix I used to run about 145 to 150 psi IP. With the Mod-II I have had to detune a couple of my Phoenix by lowering the IP to about 135 psi or I can induce a venturi driven free flow way too easily.

[Bryan]

I agree with Luis and have found that 125psi will run 3 LP devices without overworking the newer model nozzle. In my opinion...Running the IP too high on a MOD II is like running excess boost in a turbocharger....Does nothing but cause problems and adds zero performance benefits.

Luis and I have spent and still do spend a lot of time trying to find flaws,defects or problems with the Phoenix nozzle. Being an overachiever at flowing air has always been one of it's strong points no matter which version.

I hope to have the lab results from testing with the new mouthpiece valves and duckbill eliminator sometime soon. Or I could do some flow testing with the mop sink faucet in my utility room and call it science

[Gilldiver]

OK, this begs the question 'If you have one of the early nozzles, can you mod it to reach the better performances of the Mod II version?'

[Gilldiver]

My nozzel is #06-144.

[Bryan]

OK, this begs the question 'If you have one of the early nozzles, can you mod it to reach the better performances of the Mod II version?'

I don't think it's worth the risk of ruining your original nozzle. Do you have any complaints with the 06? If not I would leave it alone... I'm sure Luis will chime in on this as well..

[treasureman]

At the price of a new nozzle being so low, I would just buy a new Mod 2 nozzle and go with the flow pardon the pun

[Drado]

Regarding the changes in the Phoenix II nozzle, I remember Luis mentioning in an old VSS thread that he would need more sensitive lab equipment to get better test data.

The major changes done included angulating the air passages and making the entire nozzle a bit shorter (image taken from same VSS thread).



Otherwise, I'd leave the original one alone and:

At the price of a new nozzle being so low, I would just buy a new Mod 2 nozzle and go with the flow pardon the pun

I got my 2nd nozzle on the way - and just like the previous one, its in the traditional style - the yoke is more in sync with the era...

[luis]

The flow passages are angled down and they are larger. I also shorten the distance from the valve to the nozzle face by 0.1 inches.

At first the performance difference was hard to measure, but in the last few years we have consistently measured a slight performance improvement.

That being said, you can fine tune a RAM or an original PRAM to perform basically the same. It just takes a bit more tinkering with it. The balance between the IP forces and the second stage spring force has to be a bit closer.

The major advantage is that with the Phoenix Mod-II you can accomplish the same performance with a slightly lower IP. This just gives a slightly larger margin of safety against a free flow.

You could cut larger holes at an angle, but the flow path will not be as clean since the original holes will still be there. And there is no way of shortening it. You will also loose the chrome plating if you do any machining. The bottom line is that I don’t think that modifying an original Phoenix is worth it.

The performance difference between the two Phoenix is really not significant enough to try to cut new holes and an original Phoenix can be easily adjusted for with some careful fine tuning. There is also no guaranty that a modified unit will perform as the Mod-II either.

To me the major advantage is that the new Phoenix is shorter. The 1/10 inch difference is not huge, but it a tight space it can be all you need.

[luis]

Regarding the changes in the Phoenix II nozzle, I remember Luis mentioning in an old VSS thread that he would need more sensitive lab equipment to get better test data.

The major changes done included angulating the air passages and making the entire nozzle a bit shorter (image taken from same VSS thread).



Otherwise, I'd leave the original one alone and:

At the price of a new nozzle being so low, I would just buy a new Mod 2 nozzle and go with the flow pardon the pun

I got my 2nd nozzle on the way - and just like the previous one, its in the traditional style - the yoke is more in sync with the era...

All that information was here, but it got lost during the server upgrade/ change. It is areal shame that we lost a lot of the history and evolution of the Phoenix. Many of these questions were answered in the lost threads.
Some of the original Phoenix threads are also available at ScubaBoard.

BTW, the RAM was also available with the large yoke knob. Both yoke knobs (and the heavy yoke) are period correct.

[captain]

I have Phoenix 006 but on the Aqua Master body I enlarged, ported and polished the 2nd stage passage and rounded the sharp short side radius where it makes the greater than 90 degree turn into the 2nd stage volcano seat. I also flared the entry into the 2nd stage port and cut the threads off the hookah port and machined it for a standard 3/8"LP hose. It's a hot rod Phoenix.