Demetan
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New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:50 pm

Hello fellow DH'sers. I recently purchased a DA Aquamaster wich is brushed chrome, in the intend to upgrade it into a Phoenix (PRAM). I suppose I will have to change alot of original parts, biginning with the hold-down brackets; what's the best way to take'em off with out scratching or notching the chome surfaces? I figured using a flat screw-driver & pliers covered with black or duct tape? Other suggestions? Also, doe's the Phoenix yoke only comes polished? Is it possible to leave it brushed or raw looking? thank you & if you already answered these questions, just guide me to the correspondant forum... :?

swimjim
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:04 pm

I assume your talking about removing the C clips that hold the can halfs together. I use a combination of an end cutters and a small screw driver. I put the C clips in a baggie and replace them with a band clamp when I re assemble. My Phoenix is one of the originals so I don't know what they are currently coming with as far as yokes these days. You'll enjoy it though. I used to dive mine all the time. But, too many choices these days. Not a complaint, a good problem to have! I really like my Hot DAAM and of course the Kraken. After you have had this... er ... disease a while, you'll understand. :lol: :lol:

Demetan
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:49 am

thnks swimjim for the tip. did you just use your bare tools or you protected them with something? since I'm in the process of shopping for parts before I touch anything (I also purchased a poseidon thor lately & it needs alot of work before it sees the blue). what did you 'not replace' on yours? I noticed that the yoke was polished, so I figure it won't matter if the Phoenix is also polished. Do you know if it's a good reg in cold waters? Also, is there any possibilities to fit a regular mouth piece since I think the original one is not very comfortable? :o :?:

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captain
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:15 am

Grab the C clips from the sides with a pair of end cutting pliers and pry back away from the bottom can.

https://www.amazon.com/Gunpla-Carpenter ... NrPXRydWU=
Captain

swimjim
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:55 pm

Demetan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:49 am
thnks swimjim for the tip. did you just use your bare tools or you protected them with something? since I'm in the process of shopping for parts before I touch anything (I also purchased a poseidon thor lately & it needs alot of work before it sees the blue). what did you 'not replace' on yours? I noticed that the yoke was polished, so I figure it won't matter if the Phoenix is also polished. Do you know if it's a good reg in cold waters? Also, is there any possibilities to fit a regular mouth piece since I think the original one is not very comfortable? :o :?:
I used bare tools and was careful about things. The first time I used my Phoenix it simply replaced the first stage. I have since added an HPR and a DBE. Your not restoring a regulator to original, so if the yoke or mouth piece's are different, it's not an issue.... IMHO. I prefer either a repro curved or hour glass mouth piece. The originals will work, but tend to be on the hard side. For cold water, you can't beat a double hose regulator. I dive Lake Michigan in mid 30's water temps and I try and get a couple of ice dives in during the winter months. I never have reg problems. Make sure your reg touches your back between the shoulder blades and swim in a slightly heads up position and you'll be golden.

Demetan
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:46 pm

Thank's for the link!
:D :!:
captain wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:15 am
Grab the C clips from the sides with a pair of end cutting pliers and pry back away from the bottom can.

https://www.amazon.com/Gunpla-Carpenter ... NrPXRydWU=

Demetan
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:28 am

when you say you added, did you mean accessories on Hp's & LP's or parts of the reg? Just curious, why did you had a DBE (inflatable buoy?)- for solo diving? Back to the reg, I suppose I should start by taking everything apart & clean it before swaping everything, like I tought. I'm asking alot of questions , I know, but it's a first for me & I never dove with a DH before. I first wanted to buy a Kraken (I might one of these days) but I noticed it had a long waiting line to get one but I don't see the Phoenix as a compromise, but more as an innovative solution for reusing DH regs with todays specs. Since youth, I always wanted to dive with a DH. Supposedly, some say they're easy to freeflow & difficult to empty when flooded...I'll have to experience it my self I guess. Do you think taking pics of the process could eventualy be usefull to someone or it's already been done & not worth it? Thank's again for your infos :)
swimjim wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:55 pm
Demetan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:49 am
thnks swimjim for the tip. did you just use your bare tools or you protected them with something? since I'm in the process of shopping for parts before I touch anything (I also purchased a poseidon thor lately & it needs alot of work before it sees the blue). what did you 'not replace' on yours? I noticed that the yoke was polished, so I figure it won't matter if the Phoenix is also polished. Do you know if it's a good reg in cold waters? Also, is there any possibilities to fit a regular mouth piece since I think the original one is not very comfortable? :o :?:
I used bare tools and was careful about things. The first time I used my Phoenix it simply replaced the first stage. I have since added an HPR and a DBE. Your not restoring a regulator to original, so if the yoke or mouth piece's are different, it's not an issue.... IMHO. I prefer either a repro curved or hour glass mouth piece. The originals will work, but tend to be on the hard side. For cold water, you can't beat a double hose regulator. I dive Lake Michigan in mid 30's water temps and I try and get a couple of ice dives in during the winter months. I never have reg problems. Make sure your reg touches your back between the shoulder blades and swim in a slightly heads up position and you'll be golden.

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:33 am

Demetan wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:28 am
when you say you added, did you mean accessories on Hp's & LP's or parts of the reg? Just curious, why did you had a DBE (inflatable buoy?)- for solo diving? ... I suppose I should start by taking everything apart & clean it before swaping everything,
DBE =

https://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/ ... /p/8406980

HPR =

https://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/ ... p/11100894

In my humble opinion,  if you are going to be adding a Phoenix 1st stage, you need to replace the existing 2nd stage with an HPR. The two together make for one sweet breathing regulator.  I have a difficult time telling breathing differences between my Phoenix/HPR/DBE equipped regulator and my Kraken. And, yes, clean everything first!

Good luck!
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

swimjim
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:41 pm

As above. With the Phoenix you can run LP hoses for a wing and a dry suit inflator. And you can have an SPG. All great things. If your truely new to Vintage diving/ double hose, you'll want to check this out... https://vintagedoublehose.com/beginners-guide/

Demetan
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:36 am

It makes more sense & I shurly will swap these two parts. For cleaning, would you recommand ultrasonic with a mixture of water & vinegar? I cleaned the exterior of my thor first stage, wich add alot of salt deposit, in a mixture of water & vinegar & I had to quit before everyting got off since the chrome was starting to dissolve, so I figured a 10 min ultrasonic bath would do the job, but not quite sure about the ratio of the two liquids (1:4 maybe to be on the safe side). If you have tips about cleaning, IM all ears.
ScubaLawyer wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:33 am
Demetan wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:28 am
when you say you added, did you mean accessories on Hp's & LP's or parts of the reg? Just curious, why did you had a DBE (inflatable buoy?)- for solo diving? ... I suppose I should start by taking everything apart & clean it before swaping everything,
DBE =

https://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/ ... /p/8406980

HPR =

https://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/ ... p/11100894

In my humble opinion,  if you are going to be adding a Phoenix 1st stage, you need to replace the existing 2nd stage with an HPR. The two together make for one sweet breathing regulator.  I have a difficult time telling breathing differences between my Phoenix/HPR/DBE equipped regulator and my Kraken. And, yes, clean everything first!

Good luck!

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Herman
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:46 am

Something to keep in mind. The Phoenix HP ports are the old school style -3/8-24 which is the same size as the modern and old LP ports. This is because there is not enough room to keep the Phoenix profile slim and use the larger 7/16-20 modern HP hose size. If you intend to use a SPG with a Phoenix, you MUST get the correct HP hose. They are still available but most dive shops don't carry them in stock, pretty sure Bryan sells them. An adapter might fit, I have not tried to use one. And be sure you connect LP items to LP ports and HP items to HP ports when using a Phoenix, THEY WILL FIT but obviously won't work correctly......you would not believe how loud an exploding LP hose is.....not that I know. :)
Herman

Demetan
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:11 pm

Thank's Herman for the advice. I think it's a very important issue if someone decides to refurbish his vintage reg. I know that US made regs used 3/8-24 unf threads & was offer as options on US models offered by european or imported brands. When I had to find out if my threads on the Oceanair Thor I'm refurbishing, were 3/8 or G 1/8 (gas treads) I used a 3/8 bolt & tried it on the ports, since I wasn't really sure about the sketches in the maintenance pdf I found. G 1/8 has 28 tpi, wich can be confusing & resemble's to a 3/8. Frankly, I don't know why most goe's for the 7/16 (may be marketing or the tendancy to dive with higher pressure bottles so a 1/16 more resist better to pressure??).

How many hp & lp ports doe's the Phoenix have? :?:

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Herman
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:38 pm

The Phoenix has 3 each, they alternate around it -HP-LP-HP-LP-HP-LP.
The 7/16 was the next size up and is mainly to force you to use the right hose in the right port. There are some 1/2 LP ports which were mainly a marketing gimmick .
Herman

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tripplec
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:53 am

Herman wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:46 am
Something to keep in mind. The Phoenix HP ports are the old school style -3/8-24 which is the same size as the modern and old LP ports. This is because there is not enough room to keep the Phoenix profile slim and use the larger 7/16-20 modern HP hose size. If you intend to use a SPG with a Phoenix, you MUST get the correct HP hose. They are still available but most dive shops don't carry them in stock, pretty sure Bryan sells them. An adapter might fit, I have not tried to use one. And be sure you connect LP items to LP ports and HP items to HP ports when using a Phoenix, THEY WILL FIT but obviously won't work correctly......you would not believe how loud an exploding LP hose is.....not that I know. :)
I use the adapter on my Phoenix with a modern spg and everything fits fine. I got mine from Bryan, but I've seen them at the lds too.

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Herman
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Re: New-older topic about the Phoenix conversion

Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:06 am

Good to know, I thought an adapter would fit but hesitated to say so without checking.
Herman

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