Why Don't You Attend Vintage Diving Events?

Poll ended at Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:53 am

I don't like the location
28%
8
Too expensive
7%
2
Don't have the time
48%
14
Don't like the people
No votes
0
Don't have the gear
3%
1
Feel Intimidated
3%
1
Don't feel welcome
10%
3
 
Total votes: 29
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Bryan
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Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:53 am

There are poll questions or you can add comments as you like.

Recent years have seen a decline in attendance across the board at Vintage Equipment Diving Events......WHY????

Folks complained that the events were only ever in Florida.....So there have been several events in Ohio, Michigan, Upstate NY ect with very little turnout.....The events are broadcast to every resource I have available without spending a ton of cash as far ahead as possible so folks can plan.
Double hose regulators and some vintage era single hose regulators are very popular with a lot of new folks getting into putting them back in service and diving with them. If this were not true I would have closed up shop years ago.....
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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rhwestfall
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:05 pm

Here is a little bit of everything yet not specifically exactly from the poll:

Location plays a big role. Regrettably, when the only gathering was "close" (4 hours drive time) to home in the St. Lawrence River in New York, I had scheduled a trip to Tobermory that was booked with deposits put down on January 1st of that year. I also was unsure if I "fit the mold" as that year I would have shown up with the only thing I owned, a Kraken. Recently I have obtained other DH regs, each being updated.

I am not a "purist", diving mixed gear, and at times I wonder if that is "good enough"....

I'd like to spend a weekend with other divers, but the logistics are usually challenging as family plays a role too.

I'd love to see another opportunity close to home...
Bob

No Longer Awaiting my Kraken.....

DAAquamaster
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:26 pm

I'm with Bob on this - none of poll options is in and of itself enough to state why I don't participate.

Intimidation?

I'm not intimidated by any of the DH divers I know (virtually or in person), but on the other hand I'm not a purist, and I'm not sure how well I'd "fit" at an event.

Don't have the gear?

It depends on how it's defined or portrayed. In past years I did assemble vintage doubles and double hose regulators (beginning before there were new production parts available) and then diving them with vintage masks, fins, harnesses and horse collar BCs or with no BC at all. I did it because it was an interesting diversion in diving, but as such it's a fairly limited pursuit.

I never bothered with vintage wet suits, etc as quite frankly it adds little more to the experience compared to the single side nylon (plain rubber on the outside) high waist, beaver tail wet suits I started diving with back in the day.

I've been far more interested in using my PRAMs for practical diving purposes in conjunction with a back plate, wing, low pressure power inflator, octo, drysuit inflator, and SPG. The PRAM has become my sole single tank pretty fish diving regulator, while side mounted doubles or my side mount rebreather are used for my more frequent technical and cave diving.

Location?

That probably comes into play in terms of Florida, where we do travel for diving about 4 times a year for about a week each trip. Those trips are centered on central Florida cave diving however, and while there is some overlap with the Springs used for the DH events, for the most part they are not the same springs and while I might be inclined to divert a day of cave diving to VDH diving event, but I wouldn't do so if it incurred additional hotel reservations, extensive travel, etc. It would also be competing with other diving related events such as the Scubaboard's Megadive (which happens at Ginnie springs and as such caters to both open water and cave divers), and various seminars and the REACT cave diving event in the Luraville area.

Now...if you piggy back it with or adjacent to a Megadive event AND have it at Ginnie Springs, my wife and I would both probably be there by default. Even if it's just at Ginnie Springs the odds are good we'd attend if we had enough advanced notice.

Time and Money?

Leave is a factor as we both have limited leave and we have only limited flexibility in scheduling - not bad, but needs to be scheduled at least a few months in advance and not conflict with some job related duties that occur at certain points in the year. Money is also a factor as we already have an expensive hobby and have to make choices based on "maximum bang for the buck".

Practically speaking, I'm more likely to dive with vintage divers in the local area, and it's tempting to say "schedule it here", but then that only works for the local divers in the eastern/central NC area.

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Bronze06
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:17 pm

Hey Folks,

I would love to go to Florida or even "Yankee Land" to meet some of you guys and gals in person, but look where I'm at. I dive a mix sometimes and pure vintage at others. Intimidation? Please! I feel that I would be around friends and mentors if I were able to go to a meet and I envy those that only have to travel a thousand or so miles to get to one.
That said, the face of DH diving is changing thanks to things like the PRAM and especially the Kraken. VDH is responsible for the lions share nowadays for this change. Possibly, future events could include traditional vintage and modern double hose equipment. I realize that the whole point of VINTAGE diving is just that, the demonstration and use of pre-1975 equipment for posterity and a sense of historical tradition, but I really don't believe if I showed up to an event with a reproduction Pinocchio and period correct fins that I would be penalized. I believe that if one tries to get as close to the equipment and style of diving that was done 50 to 60 years ago, who cares if I have a modern made "Hydroglove".
If purists really are honest with themselves, if we were to dive PURE vintage equipment, to include internal regulator components, vintage diving would indeed be rather risky. Like historical re-enactors, we dive this stuff because it gives us a sense of where we come from. For safety, we need to make compromises and through the use of modern and product improved components such as silicon hoses, diaphragms, etc. we can continue to dive as our fathers and grandfathers did. So when we say a "Vintage Diving Event" we are for the most part saying the style and type of equipment that would have been used in the past that is period correct looking, functional and most importantly safe all things considered. JMO
"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

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Herman
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:40 pm

I try to attend if at all possible but being honest, northern quarries don't really make me want to go. Portage was a 13 hr drive for me and while I LOVE to visit with the people, 26 hrs on the road to dive in a cold, murky quarry is not very conducive to me wanting to go. I had planned to go to the NY one the other year but unexpected personal things got in the way. For me, time and (within reason) money is not an object, that said, I won't pay airline and rental car prices to dive a cold quarry.....somewhere warm, esp at the end of winter, that is a total different matter, odds are I'm in.
As for not having the gear or being intimidated buy DH divers, I sure hope no one has ever felt that way. I know I have personally invited several people who expressed an interest in DH diving, offering to loan them a reg and show them the basics of it. And as far as regs are concerned, several have dove single hose regs and I have dove everything from a Argonaut to a home built DH, there is NO reason to not come just because of the regs you may or may not have....guarantee most of us have 2 or 10 extras we will loan you.
Herman

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Bryan
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:58 pm

Let me clarify a bit.....Joining a new group can be intimidating for some folks.....I don't think anyone in our group is intentionally intimidating to anyone else but being the new person and figuring out the do's and don'ts the who and whom etc is not something everyone is comfortable doing.

I do hope that as a group we make every effort to welcome anyone who is interested in diving with us and or learning more about vintage equipment diving and how to get involved.

I hope others will share more information here or with me by E-mail that will help promote and grow the attendance at future events.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

kworkman
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:08 pm

Because I have a crappy work schedule and a toddler, I miss out on everything and it stinks. Lot of great guys in Ohio that I am always welcome to dive with and it is a bummer that Im always working.

As far as equipment and being welcome, you can show up in a DUI drysuit with brand new regs and be welcome. Everyone brings an abundance of gear and are more than willing to share and educate.

As soon as I find a new job, I can get a life back and start diving more frequently.

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Nemrod
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:14 pm

I have attended many of the Sand Dogs and enjoyed each. I did not attend year before last in NY because I was previously engaged teaching a class that had been set up months in advance for foreign customers. Then this year the Sea Hunt event stepped on the ol'Dog but I could not do that because I was yet again engaged long prior to go to Germany for business purposes. My point being I voted "No Time" as that was the closest response to the truth of the matter.

In 1984 my wife and I took off from Monroe, La. to Houston, Tx. in our Grumman American Tiger. Somewhere over the thickets of East Texas we flew into a strange green hole in the sky, my VOR wandered aimlessly, my compass spun in circles and only static on the VHF. I saw a runway through the greenish haze, lost, we landed to reconnoiter our situation. Not a soul to be found, no buildings but one little shed. We walked down a country dirt road through tall pines and the whirr of cicada to happen upon a tiny country store. Entering we found an ancient lady with black eyes and a fly on her nose who only glared at us and sold us a packet of bologna and two hot cokes. We took that since there was no phone and retreated to our aircraft. Darkness soon fell upon us as we snuggled in the cockpit with strange howling sounds and something thumping against the aluminum, I turned the landing lights on only to see green eyes everywhere :shock:, I quickly turned them off. The next morning as the sun arose, the green haze was gone and not a thing in sight, with a cough the good old Lycoming shook to life and as I turned to the runway there across the runway was a pack of wild wolf dogs, huge. I held the brakes and poured the throttle to the Lycoming and 380 cubic inches of fierce American made pistons the size of gallon jugs meant business and the Grumman leapt forward roaring down the runway toward the devil dogs. At the last instant I rotated and the Tiger clawed for air and I bent her over in a 45 degree turn to look back, the mist closed behind us and soon the cackle of the VHF was once again alive, the Navasota VOR locked solid and I steered a course for the Big H and homeward under bright sunny skies. Upon landing, we discovered a new world, not at first but slowly it dawned upon us, we were in some alternate universe, a place where everything good was now bad, where right was now wrong and where heroes no longer existed. And where SCUBA divers used these silly little single hose regulators, I was convinced then more than ever, God help us, we are lost and through we have tried, I never did find that greenish hole in the sky, or the old nag with the black eyes and a fly on her nose, yet. You know, the strangest thing, the ignition key to our Renault, it did not fit.

Nem

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SurfLung
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:52 am

Nemrod,... For crying out loud how is anybody supposed to follow a post like that? What a great story... I was riveted! :)

- My first "Vintage" get together was kind of a disappointment, followed by the making of a new friend and some acceptances of reality. Sea Hunt Jerry ramrods an annual Vintage get together at Wazee and I had gotten up early and drove 4 hours to arrive there around 10:00 and dive vintage. It turned out to be more of a dive anyway you like group and I was the most "vintage" of the group. I was still in the water when everybody left and ended up eating dinner by myself. After dinner I got a call from Jerry to come and join everybody at Culvers so that kind of saved the evening but, not much of the conversation had anything to do with vintage diving.
- The next day, I met Tom McClusky who, like me, was staying over the 2nd night. After everybody went home, Tom and I got together and Tom showed me his 50 Fathom and told me the story of how the whole vintage diving movement got started. I have to say Tom saved the whole weekend as far as a "vintage" experience for me. But maybe I was over-expecting...
- This mixture of modern and vintage get together brings up something SwimJim told me about successful dive groups: It's supposed to be about having fun... Not conforming to a bunch of rules. Jim says, "Come and dive whatever equipment you want to. Have fun and make new friends. Bring a dish to share... Food adds to the fun." Its a pretty simple formula, but down right ingenius.
- The ACTIVE vintage guys in our area numbered Jerry, Tom, SwimJim and me at that time. But now we have Rich M., SheriffDiver, and DiverDon. We have another SERIOUS vintage diver out in the Black Hills of South Dakota, Mike Curran. But he's not close to anyone or any attractive dive locations we could meet at in between. I wish we could dive with him sometime.

Otherwise for me, time and distance are the only things that get in the way of my attending EVERY vintage event. :)
SurfLung
The Freedom and Simplicity of Vintage Equipment and
Vintage Diving Technique are Why I Got Back Into Diving.

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captain
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:56 am

I want some of the stuff James is putting in his tanks.
Captain

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DaveMann
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:13 am

Nemrod wrote: Entering we found an ancient lady with black eyes and a fly on her nose who only glared at us and sold us a packet of bologna and two hot cokes.
Nem
Whether you're fending off wolves, or eating bologna in a parallel universe -

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captain
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:10 pm

Time, distance and dive site usually are my deciding factors. Close but uninteresting site I would probably attend, far and uninteresting site probably not. Also for me water temperature plays a part, warmer the better. For me close is a days drive, 500 to 600 miles. 1000 miles to the keys yes, 1000 miles to a cold quarry no.
Captain

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Bryan
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:00 pm

237 Views and only 12 votes.......Please take a second and do the poll please.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Creed
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:44 pm

When I was in the midwest, I made it to 2 SandDogs. Now, I'm on the west coast, so the time and expense of traveling is prohibitive(also, this is why I'm not hitting up the islands out there). Right now, most of my diving is with my son, locally when we have time to get out and the surf isn't terrible. I'd love to go back to a SandDog on the panhandle if it works out with the family schedule and finances.
"Haul the sheet in as we ride on the wind that our
forefathers harnessed before us
Hear the bells ring as the tide rigging sings.
It's a son of a gun of a chorus" - Jimmy Buffet

dhaas
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Re: Why you don't attend Vintage Equipment Gatherings??

Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:58 pm

I and my long time dive buddy Ron Yanega did some of the early Sand Dog events in FLA. Good time of year, no hassle diving in the springs whatever you had rebuilt etc. Had lots of fun and met some great folks. We both enjoyed the gear discussions too just like any "vintage" hobby.

First, full disclosure: I run scuba vacations in addition to being an Ikelite and Fantasea underwater photography equipment dealer. In the decades I've run trips I usually have found this:

* Money may be an issue. This goes with family commitments which even after kids grow up then it's Grandkids LOL.....

* Fresh water versus ocean. Many are happy blowing bubbles anywhere while others want a nice ocean environment. As Capt. says the warmer the better. This is actually my #1 client requirement along with easy conditions, decent visibility, etc. I've done my share of quarry diving and would have likely come next month but will be out of town on my own vacation with the wife.

* Travel distance (and cost) as Capt. Tom alluded to and I'll add international travel. Some do it and find it easy while others are totally averse to it.

A Comment on international dive trips: Luis and Herman have both done wonderful jobs on trips to Cozumel and Bonaire. Both are a bargain in Caribbean dive trips. I personally think Bonaire has a slight edge as to the easy diving, no gear hassle (OK you can't really dive a backpack and no BC, no SPG dive computer etc. ) but you catch my drift.

* Personal interest. Are you a "died in the wool exact vintage dive gear diver" or Argonaut modern / whatever configurations ? Many straddle this from what I see and read in the forums.

* Like any hobby sometimes people just cycle out due to age, loss of dive buddies, etc. My personal opinion is trips keep divers diving and COULD work for the VDH bunch. But planning and commitment is the key.

The stories I could tell you about organizing trips :( Like the guy who says: " Go during XYZ month and I'll get 10 of my buddies to go for sure!" Well guess what......After I reserve space, get all logistics and usually get a few extras in their dive vacation they are ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS the ones who never go......

For Pacific trips I plan 12-18 months in advance so folks can arrange time off, commit the $$$$, etc. Caribbean trips 6-8-12 months out. These days I simply plant my stake in the ground with dates, details and how to get on a trip. People are adults and if they want to go they'll make it happen. It's all BS until deposits are thrown down too. I NEVER hold a spot for anyone on a say so....Just sayin'........

I also treat dive travelers like adults. Want to fly the redeye to save $20.00? Go for it. Want to eat at Pasa Bon for pizza or the cheapo' rib place, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches all week? Fine.......Require a $50.00 entree' at a different place each night on Bonaire? Go for it.

I see this in dive stores who think they'll make it running people through multiple certifications. They're usually done with diving even if they get them to take "Advanced Open Water" (5 more dives, LOL......) But if they get them on a trip they're usually hooked and continue being real divers.....

Sorry to be so long winded but thought I'd share some thoughts.

David Haas
http://www.haasimages.com

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