socool
Diver
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:54 am
First Name: Mason
Location: Denham Springs LA

Question about how vintage gear works

Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:00 pm

So I'm a little embarrassed to ask this stuff but oh well. So Here are my questions.

I was looking in the store and was looking at the "Dive Rite Travel XT Wing" B.C.D. How do you put it on? Where does your tank go? Do you need to buy a metal plate or something for it?

Where do you hook up b.c thingy to air at and where do you plug up your console/guage at?

Would I need special training for this setup or would a couple of pool dives be fine?

User avatar
captain
Plank Owner
Posts: 1440
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:32 am
Location: LaPlace, LA

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:36 pm

I think you may be getting a little ahead of what vintage diving is .Look around here a while and you will become informed about what the differences are between true vintage diving and modern double hose diving.
They are two different animals. Modern double hose diving involves the use of most methods currently taught. However some adjustments must be made to accommodate a double hose regulator.
By contrast vintage diving does away with most of the modern gadgets such as SPG, BC etc. In vintage diving the basic equipment is mask, fins, weight belt if needed, tank and regulator watch, depth gauge and wet suit if needed.
Captain

socool
Diver
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:54 am
First Name: Mason
Location: Denham Springs LA

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:52 pm

captain wrote:I think you may be getting a little ahead of what vintage diving is .Look around here a while and you will become informed about what the differences are between true vintage diving and modern double hose diving.
They are two different animals. Modern double hose diving involves the use of most methods currently taught. However some adjustments must be made to accommodate a double hose regulator.
By contrast vintage diving does away with most of the modern gadgets such as SPG, BC etc. In vintage diving the basic equipment is mask, fins, weight belt if needed, tank and regulator watch, depth gauge and wet suit if needed.
I would like to do the modern double house set up with a spg/bc. What type of BC would I need/SPG ect..? I was gonna buy the Argonaut Kraken double house reg

User avatar
Ron
Site Admin
Posts: 1748
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:51 pm
First Name: Ron
Location: Puget Sound, Washington
Contact: Website

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:59 pm

Hi,

If you want to dive a double hose with modern gear, then you generally use a backplate and wing (called a BPW for short) with a double hose specific plate on it that VDH sells here:

http://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/V ... ry=1874499

You build it like any BPW you would find out in the world, then nestle the double hose cans in the crook that is formed into the plate. I'm simplifying that, but half of the fun of this is learning. The best way to do this is to buy what you need and to spend some time in a pool or confined open water environment farting around with everything. Really, other than the plate and the positioning of the regulator, from a gear perspective that about does it. The skills are a little different too, but again that is half the fun. 8)

If you are unfamiliar with a BPW, I suggest your exercise your Google-fu. There are also threads here about such things :)
The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed. -JYC

socool
Diver
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:54 am
First Name: Mason
Location: Denham Springs LA

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:08 pm

slonda828 wrote:Hi,

If you want to dive a double hose with modern gear, then you generally use a backplate and wing (called a BPW for short) with a double hose specific plate on it that VDH sells here:

http://vintagedoublehose.com/store/#!/V ... ry=1874499

You build it like any BPW you would find out in the world, then nestle the double hose cans in the crook that is formed into the plate. I'm simplifying that, but half of the fun of this is learning. The best way to do this is to buy what you need and to spend some time in a pool or confined open water environment farting around with everything. Really, other than the plate and the positioning of the regulator, from a gear perspective that about does it. The skills are a little different too, but again that is half the fun. 8)

If you are unfamiliar with a BPW, I suggest your exercise your Google-fu. There are also threads here about such things :)
So any tank would work with that back plate? Or would I have to buy a custom tank for it? so bc+plate+double hose so about 1,400$. I still don't see how you attack a SPG on it or hook it up to BC inflator.

User avatar
Bryan
Plank Owner
Posts: 5279
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:40 am
First Name: Bryan
Location: Wesley Chapel Florida
Contact: Website

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:25 pm

I'll be glad to sell you everything you need but I think at this point it would be a mistake and you would be unhappy and frustrated.
What type of gear are you diving with now or have you dived with in the past?

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

socool
Diver
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:54 am
First Name: Mason
Location: Denham Springs LA

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:32 pm

Bryan wrote:I'll be glad to sell you everything you need but I think at this point it would be a mistake and you would be unhappy and frustrated.
What type of gear are you diving with now or have you dived with in the past?

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk
hollis m1 mask
rk3 fins
modern weight belt with soft weight
neosport dive boots 3mm
3mm gloves


then from the shop I rent the 5mm wetsuit,tank,bc/stage1 ect..

That's all the gear I made my 8 dives with. Not counting the 4-5 pool dives + the two course pool dives that where 5-7 hours long.

User avatar
Bryan
Plank Owner
Posts: 5279
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:40 am
First Name: Bryan
Location: Wesley Chapel Florida
Contact: Website

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:43 pm

Diving with a double hose is not all that different but there are some very critical points that you need to be aware of and need to observe. You are not going to buy a bunch of vintage equipment or even a new Argonaut Kraken with the specific backplate and wing and walk into your local dive shop and ask them to show you how to use it. 99.9% of the shops and instructors will look at you like you have a screw loose as they are not familiar with how or why it works and have no clue how to show you.

Start at the beginning and do some reading.

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=8423

http://vintagedoublehose.blogspot.com/2 ... pment.html

http://vintagedoublehose.blogspot.com/2 ... i-buy.html

After you read over ALL OF THIS......Go back and read it again. Many questions will be answered and after you are done you will have new ones to ask.

Diving a double hose regulator be it vintage or modern is not "Plug and Play" It requires a lot of research and practice.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

swimjim
Master Diver
Posts: 1694
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:28 am
First Name: Jim
Location: Belgium WI

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:24 pm

"Diving a double hose regulator be it vintage or modern is not "Plug and Play" It requires a lot of research and practice."

Very true, but it is worth it in the end. Some things in life you just have to earn. Hang in there, you'll get it. Welcome aboard by the way.

Swimjim

User avatar
Bryan
Plank Owner
Posts: 5279
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:40 am
First Name: Bryan
Location: Wesley Chapel Florida
Contact: Website

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:49 am

After you have had time to read over some of the info I linked you to, please come back and ask more questions. I realize it is a lot to digest all at once but it will help you get started off right.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

TomcatPC
Skin Diver
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:38 pm
First Name: Mark
Location: Toledo Ohio

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:38 am

I am very new to vintage diving and basically diving itself, so I have no intensive experience to share other than it's fun. In my experience so far I have found it easier than I had thought to dive without a BC. When I first wanted to get into vintage diving I thought it would be dang near impossible to dive without a BC...now I love it. I'm still getting the weight fine tuned, but it is coming along. It is worth the effort learning vintage diving.

One thing I am doing right now is diving with vintage single hose regs. I am lucky and found a couple cheaper priced single hose regs., more and more I am using my US Divers Calypso-J and my main "everyday normal use" reg. is a 1970 vintage US Divers Conshelf XI. I think I have used my modern Titan reg. once this year? Having said that I LOVE diving my Mistral double hose and plan to get another double hose in the future!

Have fun in your quest, and it is fun.
Mark

User avatar
georgeaustin
Master Diver
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:41 am
First Name: george
Location: Los Angeles CA

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:07 pm

It seems like most of us on this site have been certified frogmen and frogwomen since the late 60's to early/mid 70's - so although we were trained with single hose regulators, we were not trained with buoyancy compensators or computers or a lot of the weird doo dads and junk you see in modern scuba. Dr. Miller will tell you that we are the newbs.

When I got my first double hose it made diving interesting again because it opens up, for me anyway, the science, historical and engineering aspect of the sport.
I only dived to shoot fish ( 1972 - 1990ish) and when it became politically incorrect to harvest marine life for food from dive charters in Southern California - somewhere in the 1990's, scuba diving had lost a lot of its luster and i was on the precipice of giving it up.

If it wasn't for this site and community, I have no doubt that I would not be diving today nearly as much as I do now - so I say good for you for leapfrogging all the things that make people quit diving in their beginner years.

Diving "vintage" style, and attitude (training methodology) makes us better ambassadors for the sport and better divers overall - you'll see why shortly after you begin.

Study the FAQ's, Be patient and have an open mind. I think you might find that you can have much more fun and spend a whole lot less money overall too.

User avatar
ScubaLawyer
Master Diver
Posts: 1649
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:25 am
First Name: Mark
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:37 pm

georgeaustin wrote: I only dived to shoot fish ( 1972 - 1990ish) and when it became politically incorrect to harvest marine life for food from dive charters in Southern California .
Don't mean to hijack the thread but couldn't resist. I am still politically incorrect, but my tummy doesn't care. :D
F15_zps418d3ce9.jpg
F23_zps61a6c8bb.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

socool
Diver
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:54 am
First Name: Mason
Location: Denham Springs LA

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:52 pm

Oh ok, so I read a little bit and understand a little better. So from my understandment back in the old days there was no BC, they would just add enough weights to them self to be naturally buoyant. I still don't really understand how you can dive without knowing how much air you have by a SPG or a console ect.. I under stand now how you attack the tank to the metal/plastic thing with straps now. Then with the BC you attack the straps to the metal/plastic thing.

But I still have these questions, do you still need a custom tank or would any tank work? I see that you need to have your tank lowered so the double hose straps would be sitting on your shoulders a little for best breathing postion.

My second question is still how would you attach your spg ect.. with that 1st stage?

I understand all the buddy breathing/tiliting to the left when recovering it to empty out water ect.. I read/watched old naval manuals/double hose reg skills videos. Those are the only two questions I have still. My instructor/group told me I had great trim/buoyancy in the water and I understand all the skills you can do to test out weight/byoyancy like adding sort burst of air to BC then waiting 2 seconds for it to take affect ect.. It would still be cool to try a double hose setup before I spent 1k+ on a setup, does anyone here know someone from louisiana that does vintage diving that I may could contact to try it out?

TomcatPC
Skin Diver
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:38 pm
First Name: Mark
Location: Toledo Ohio

Re: Question about how vintage gear works

Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:04 pm

When I dive using a vintage regulator* I use a Steel 72 tank. I think they are fairly easy to find for the most part? There are other tanks out there, and I do have an odd ball Healthways Steel tank that is taller than a 72 and I think is a low pressure 80, but that is not as common. I really like the Steel 72 tank and hope to find more as time goes one.

I am getting more and more comfortable in using a J-Valve and Pull Rod. In warm shallow water I know I can get at least 45 minutes out of a 72, so far in open water diving I have not drained the tank low enough to have the J-Valve "kick in", but have got close. I could also tell by the way my Mistral was breathing and feeling the tank get lighter that my air was getting lower.

When diving a vintage single hose regulator with a steel 72 I sometimes use a SPG connected to the first stage as my Calypso-J does have a high pressure port. So does my Healthways Scuba Star, but the gauge hose is FUBAR at the moment and I have been just using a J-Valve.

One thing I do, and this is just me, is that when I take a steel 72 to the shop for VIS, I find a Dacor J-Valve, have it rebuilt and installed on the tank. Dacor J-Valves also have a high pressure port for an SPG to be attached directly to the tank valve itself. So that way I can use a traditional J-Valve with pull rod and if I want to, I can also use an SPG with my Mistral Double Hose with it's standard yoke without having to use a banjo fitting and long yoke. I hope that all made sense?

In addition to Dacor, Healthways also made tank valves with high pressure ports for SPGs.
Hope that all made sense?
Mark


*I have and continue to dive my 1970-ish US Divers Conshelf XI on a modern AL80 Tank.

Return to “New Vintage Equipment Diver's Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests