sonofnom
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:18 pm
First Name: Steven
Location: Bradenton FL

New Double-Hose Owner

Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:17 am

Howdy gang! I'm new to this whole vintage double hose thing, but I managed to pick up a DA-Aqua Master 1958-72 square blue label model. It needs everything before it will be functional, but I have the tools and the patience to fix it. I plan on converting it to a balanced Phoenix 1st stage with an HPR second stage. The question I had is this; what additional parts do I need beyond what is included in these conversion "kits"? I found a 2 stage "service kit" for the DA online under the seller "vintagedoublehose" and I am wondering if that is a good idea to pick up. I really appreciate any advice or help that any of you fine folks can provide, as I am very new at this.

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Herman
VDH Moderator
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Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:45 pm
Location: Raleigh NC

Re: New Double-Hose Owner

Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:28 am

Welcome to the board.
If your DA has a square label, it was made between 58 and 69, 70-72 had round labels. If it's shinny chrome, 64-69 and if it has a yoke screw that looks like a tire 66-69. It really does not matter what year it was made, internally they are all the same but it's always fun to narrow it down some.

This board is Vintage Double Hose and where you can purchase all parts you need. Besides the Phoenix and HPR, you will require a few more parts to get it operational and there are some that are nice to have. I will list the parts and give you some explanation why you need/want them, it suffices to say that ALL rubber parts have to be replaced, none of them stand up to 45 or more years of aging and are still good enough to dive with. With a Phoenix and HPR you are building a very good breathing regulator, don't scrimp on old rubber goods.

The parts you will require are, (they are NOT optional no matter of how good the originals look :) :

DA service kit - it does not come with a HP seat but you will not need it if you are installing a Phoenix
DBE (duck bill eliminator) or a duckbill -these regs have an exhaust valve in the top can that must be replace, you can use either the DBE or
a standard duckbill considering you are upgrading to a Phoenix and HPR, I would highly recommend
adding the DBE...it's just a $10 difference, is easier to install and preforms better
Mouthpiece valves (aka wagon wheel valves) - these are mushroom shaped silicon valves in the mouthpiece, guaranteed the old ones are bad

Hoses and mouthpiece I realize yours might look OK but again, these rubber good do not stand up well over time, you are building
a very good regulator, why dive it with crappy hoses and mouthpiece...and frankly the old rubber ones taste bad.

Nice to have:

Band Clamp the C clips on these regs are a pain to remove and install, plus they tend to scratch up the chrome if you
are not very careful. The band clamp is easy to remove and install which encourages you to open and
properly inspect and clean the reg....none of my regs go without one unless I am trying to keep it original.
Hose clamps I am listing them under nice to have because most of the time they are OK but personally, I replace them too
many times they are brittle and will break so it's nice to have spares.

Beyond parts I would suggest you take the time to read and learn as much as you can about DH regs, both from a service and a diving perspective. They are fairly simple to service but it does take some understanding of how they operate to do the job correctly. Likewise, diving them is easy but is different and requires some different techniques to get the most out of your reg. For example, the regs MUST be properly located on your body. Most modern BCs do not allow this. The cans (metal body) have to be low and close to the body and REMAIN there through out the dive, modern BCs don't do this well (or at all). Breathing a DH is also different for most people, rather then a shallow, quick breath, a DH works best with long slow inhales and exhales. The regs will give you air with a modern BC and breathed improperly but you will not like the experience nearly as much.
There is a lot if information available on this site, both in the "Manuals and Catalogs" section as well as threads members have posted over the year, do a search and read all you can, the better informed you are the easier this will be. And ask questions, by far the best DH divers on the planet are on this board. We don't just talk about them we dive and restore them (and build new things) all the time.

And I may as well comment a little on tools, there are some must haves and some nice to haves. Besides the standard hand tools, on the must have list are an IP gauge and circlip pliers. On the the nice to have list are a number of tools that will make your life easier. You need some way to hold the reg body and remove the body ring. You can really mess up the body and interior of the cans if you are not careful using makeshift tools. The HP nozzle assembly (both the original and Phoenix) are a real pain to reassemble without the proper tools, it can be done but it's a huge pain. I make the tools for these regs. You can contact me for a catalog (or download it from the "catalog and manuals" section of the board)

Above all, ASK QUESTIONS. We have all been where you are and are willing to help if you will just ask. We enjoy photos of your progress and they help up direct you so keep the camera handy....
Herman

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Bryan
Plank Owner
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First Name: Bryan
Location: Wesley Chapel Florida
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Re: New Double-Hose Owner

Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:06 am

Excellent reply ....Thank You Herman!........Vintagedoublehose on E-bay is this websites store on there. Prices on E-bay are higher and much less selection. EVERYTHING for a DA is in the website store as Herman said.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

sonofnom
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Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:18 pm
First Name: Steven
Location: Bradenton FL

Re: New Double-Hose Owner

Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:01 pm

Thank you for the very informative reply! I have done quite a bit of reading before my purchase. And the regulator I have is in pretty rough shape finish-wise. I have a guy locally that Cerakotes all of my firearm related things, and based on a comment that was made about the new Kraken regulator and the superb aesthetics of that regulator, I was planning on having it coated matte black. I just wanted to make sure this was a good idea on these vintage regs, and that it wont affect performance. I also agree with the assessment regarding the DBE and the wagon wheels. My reg was not shipped with any hoses, so I will definitely pick up a nice silicone pair and a band clamp for the body of the reg. I also plan on getting one of those reproduction labels to complete the look.

I will post pictures of the regulator as it is assembled, as well as some before and after shots of the regulator itself.

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Bryan
Plank Owner
Posts: 5279
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:40 am
First Name: Bryan
Location: Wesley Chapel Florida
Contact: Website

Re: New Double-Hose Owner

Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:25 pm

Cerakote is a good option for SOME regulators and the outcome is determined by the prep and the person doing the application. Cerakote does not adhere well to bright chrome and will flake off easily unless the chrome is removed. It adheres really well to brass and or satin finish regulators with the right preparation. Finish must go on evenly or you run the chance of thread clearance issues. Also do not coat both the female yoke and male knob threads.
I have done a lot of work with Cerakote and use it on select regulators and a few other items but overall it is not a finish that can be used on production regulators at least the way it is now. My regulator a few sample Argonaut Kraken regulators were done in Cerakote but it was not appropriate for larger volume. I am looking at alternative finishes for future production.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

sonofnom
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:18 pm
First Name: Steven
Location: Bradenton FL

Re: New Double-Hose Owner

Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:44 pm

Thanks for the input. The shop that I use does a lot of precision work with their Cerakote and even does work on gas blocks and triggers (which are notoriously tight in tolerance) where a couple thousandths an inch in clearance can make the difference between a rifle functioning or not functioning. If I were to go this route, I would have them strip the reg down to the bare metal and apply the coating the same way they do the other parts. The only reason that Cerakote or something similar is on my radar is because the chrome on my reg is not in good shape. Plus, I can only imagine the enhanced durability would be a good thing.

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Bronze06
Master Diver
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Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:33 am
First Name: Russell
Location: Tabuk, Saudi Arabia

Re: New Double-Hose Owner

Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:40 am

Sonofnon,

Welcome to the world of Double Hose Regulators and welcome to the greatest and most knowledgeable forum on the internet when it comes to Double Hose Regulators. These folks really no their stuff. Glad to have you on board!
"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

Pedro
Skin Diver
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:47 am
First Name: Pedro
Location: Wellington NZ

Re: New Double-Hose Owner

Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:17 am

Bryan wrote:Excellent reply ....Thank You Herman!........Vintagedoublehose on E-bay is this websites store on there. Prices on E-bay are higher and much less selection. EVERYTHING for a DA is in the website store as Herman said.
Herman is like the sniper of the team: quick, discreet and nails it every time!

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8dust
Master Diver
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:39 am
Location: Nashville's North Shore

Re: New Double-Hose Owner

Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:24 pm

Welcome Aboard!

Post some photos of your Cerakote job when you get it done.

I'm not too familiar with that stuff but have seen it on a couple guns. Does it tolerate the flexing of being applied to sheet metal like a regulator can?
Freddo
NAVED member #201

sonofnom
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:18 pm
First Name: Steven
Location: Bradenton FL

Re: New Double-Hose Owner

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:40 am

Sorry for the long delay, It's been a busy few days. From what I have gathered about Cerakote, it will adhere to aluminum, steel, stainless steel, Titanium, Scandium or 'pot metal'. They even make a coating that can be applied to fiberglass, though the application is different.

Time will tell whether it is the best option for this regulator. What I do know is, it seems like the best option for me. Had I easy access to a local place that could chrome this regulator in a satisfactory manner, I would probably consider that option.

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