Power inflator vs. Integrated octo on a Phoenix

[dacordiver23]

Curious as to everyone's opinion on the prefered set up when using a Phoenix with a deticated octo and power inflator vs an intigrated octo? Currently I'm running and intigrated setup on my modern gear but I'm wondering what the prefered configuration is amongst the veterans.

[Bryan]

I prefer to leave them at home with other stuff I have no use for.

[Herman]

While I agree with Bryan in principal, when on a boat or diving with unknown (non vintage) buddies I usually have one. An integrated octo is almost useless with a DH. The whole idea of them is for you to donate your primary and you use the octo. Now it's certainly possible to do that with a DH but the odds are your buddy will understand is another matter. If they do understand a DH, then old school buddy breathing is the prefered option. Otherwise I feel it's better to hand off something they were trained on. The other issue is the integrated octo is too short to hand off effectively and if you are using your BC like most modern divers do, you will have to take it back from the OOA diver to adjust buoyancy. There are a lot of older second stages that make good octos so I usually use an older one as opposed to a current model just to keep the old theme going.

[luis]

I agree with Herman.

The theory of combining an inflator and an octopus to reduce the number of hoses sounds at first appealing, but IMO it turn out to be very impractical. This is especially true with a double hose. I also find the large inflator/ octopus combination to be large.

I personally like a short inflator hose in my BC bladder.

For my octopus I tend to go with one of the modern low profile flat swivel units (from Oceanic or Aeris). They are small, low profile, and nonintrusive, but functional. I have actually share air with one of our double hose friends and he found the little swivel octopus to work very well. He was glad I had it.

[dacordiver23]

And this is why I believe that there are no dumb questions. I would have never considered the lenght limitations regarding using an integrated octo on a DH. I was leaning toward using a deticated octo but, after reading the replies to the post, I'm now more convinced of that decision. While I would love to dive with nothing but vintage gear I think I'll slowly walk my way into that stage. Thanks again for all the great advice.

[Nemrod]

I am of the opinion that integrated octo/inflator units with a double hose are yet another example of a potential trap of faulty thinking from mixing old and new without thinking it all through. That is because most who use the integrated units will hand off their primary (on a 36 to 40 inch hose) to the OOA diver and they switch to the integrated unit. Obviously this will not work with a double hose regulator so you wind up in a rather claustrophobic situation. Yeah, I guess you could give the integrated thingy to the OOA diver and you keep the double hose but really, a separate, standard octo run under the arm on a hose with a 90 degree swivel is a good way to go.

Nem

[Herman]

The other reason to keep at least one hose longer is to allow for a normal swimming position, since a longer DH is not an option, a longer octo makes sence. If you have just the intergrated octo and a DH, you will have to swim face to face and very close together. Again this is possible but not the best alternative. A seperate octo with a reasonably long hose works well. I was escorting a young newbie diver last summer and she managed to suck down 1500psi to less than 500 in a couple of minutes....still have not figured out how... but since we were headed back in and only in 15ft of water I handed her my octo and continued the dive, side by side. This would not have been nearly as easy if just a DH or an intergrated octo. Now when I am diving with this bunch, the octo goes...they all know better than to run out of air and can all buddy breath- the real one, not the share air with octo. Here is my reg in caribbean dive with non-vintage divers arrangement.

[Ron]

I have had only a few tiny instances of gear failures in my brief 11 years of diving, and those air integrated octos were the cause of one of them. I hate air integrated octos, because when they fail they either leak into the second stage, which causes a free flow and means that you lose your inflator when you disconnect it OR, and this is worse, they dump air into your BC bladder, like mine did. It kept trying to pull me to the surface until I disconnected it. I was on dive master duty, and I had to bingo the dive because I had no alternate air soure for my students.

I think the air integrated octo is a solution to a nonexistent problem. I creates a single point of failure for two things.

Having said that, I rarely use modern gear at all unless I must. I prefer vintage gear only, and I don't use octos, computers, or anything else when I dive vintage.

[ebj]

I guess I am the exception. I use a SP Air 2 on all my offshore dives. In fact, all of us on the boat use them. I've never had a problem with it. I can't remember anyone else having a problem with theirs on a dive.I use it as a backup regulator for myself, not my dive buddies. I also carry a pony which can be used by myself or handed off if necessary. All of our gear gets handled pretty rough on the trips and we expect it to work without exception. After all, they are just tools to get us to the fish and back to the boat safely.