saltigagt
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:23 pm

breathed from the hoses, not the horn. have read quite a few warnings on this forum to learn that bit! :D When attached to a tank on land, breathing from it is ok, not as smooth as my conshelfs (maybe need to lower the cracking pressure), but going underwater its like sucking through a straw. I guess its the position of the cans on my back. Will try the crotch strap and see if that improves. Hopefully there will be a dive this weekend.

Luis, i take it you were working in the east coast of Peninsular Malaysia that time around? If you get the chance, do drop by Sabah, can even visit the ever popular Sipadan Island for dives =)

Anyway, thanks guys for all the input, will keep you posted after i try the crotch strap and tweaking of the cracking pressure.

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luis
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:10 pm

Out of the water a Phoenix HPR regulator should breathe as good or better than any single hose. If it is not, you are starting with a handicap and should fine tune to breathe better.

I just looked back and you never mentioned if you have an HPR. The HPR does perform a bit better, but you should still be able to fine tune the original second stage to breathe very well, it just takes a bit more tinkering.



Yes, I was on the east coast of the peninsula. I just looked up where you live. You must have some outstanding diving near you.


Oh, BTW, I like those straps. :)
Luis

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saltigagt
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:22 pm

I have a Phoenix HPR RAM, hm... I think have to do a bit more tinkering with it. My lever height is slightly (~1mm) above the can, and IP is 140+, how else can I tune it? I got the straps off strapworks.com, lots of choices, you can even send them your own picture and have them print it on the straps!

Kota Kinabalu's diving is ok (if compared to places like Sipadan and Layang Layang), but its convenient, 15 mins drive to the jetty, 20 mins boat ride and your diving already! 8)

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Nemrod
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:26 am

I suspect that you are over weighted which results in an inflated wing in combination with excessively loose shoulder straps of incorrect material and no crotch strap results in a significant gap between the regulator and your back. This causes the regulator to be too far away from your lungs and too high on your back regardless of how low it appears to sit when standing out of the water. Your plate is simply not rigged correctly.

And, a Phoenix HPR should breath better on the surface than a Conshelf, hands down.

The straps/webbing should be .080 or greater thickness resin impregnated nylon webbing. Only the crotch strap should be the softer polyester or non resin impregnated nylon. I am not sure what kind of webbing that is but it is not .080 to .100 resin impregnated nylon most find desirable for scuba webbing on a back plate and leopard spots are probably not vintage.

Nemrod

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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:49 am

The plate would also function better if the straps were crossed. From your photo, it looks like the straps aren't crossed at the top.
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luis
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:58 am

Nemrod wrote:
The straps/webbing should be .080 or greater thickness resin impregnated nylon webbing. Only the crotch strap should be the softer polyester or non resin impregnated nylon. I am not sure what kind of webbing that is but it is not .080 to .100 resin impregnated nylon most find desirable for scuba webbing on a back plate and leopard spots are probably not vintage.

Nemrod
Nemron
You are contradicting yourself… if you truly want vintage, you use cotton straps not nylon. :shock:
In any case this is “Modern Era Double Hose Diving” section. Look at the top of the page.

They are not leopard spots, they are puppy foot prints. It is not what I would wear, but I think they cool. 8)

Can I ask why you are so concern about the strap material and thickness? Are you concern that the straps are going to stretch or is it the shape that they will hold. Any stretching would be insignificant. Lots of divers use soft straps. I personally prefer stiff straps because the hold their shape better. My harness (with the stiff nylon straps) almost looks like a Hawaiian pack when it is mounted on a tank. But I think of that as just personal preference.


I do agree that it is very possible that he may be over weighted and have too much air in the wing. A proper fitting harness with a crotch strap (and a sternum strap) will help a lot in this situation, but it is not a true substitute for being properly weighted.


As Drado mentions, the straps need to be crossed. It is hard to tell from the picture if they are crossing right behind the regulator mouthpiece. I rig my straps somewhat different, but as long as the cross behind the shoulders it should work.
Luis

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Nemrod
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:24 pm

Luis, the soft puppy foot print material does not hold it's shape and that is clear in the photo. The problem with floppy webbing:

1. It is difficult to put the harness on, stiffer webbing will hold a shape facilitating entry, important for some people (like me with double acl injuries) more perhaps than others and especially helpful when wearing suits that limit movement.

2. The soft webbing tends to slip it's position within buckles.

3. The soft webbing tends to shift/slip on the divers body.

4. It lacks durability

And I could probably come up with more reasons.

The reason I suspect overweighting as a contributing cause is the description in the OPs post where he mentions specifically loose shoulder straps and the tank hanging down around his knees. Proper rigging of the plate would result in a correct tank position without excessively loose straps or depending upon loose straps to position the tank. But, the OP is on to something for sure, I too like my shoulder straps a tad loose.

The crotch strap is an important item for a plate, but maybe not absolutely needed, that can depend upon factors such as body shape, exposure suit etc. A crotch strap does help to position the plate in an appropriate position and limit movement but it alone will not prevent the wing from floating/pulling away from the body if the shoulder straps have been left excessively loose.

So, in conclusion Senior Luis, without actually standing there and helping Saltigagt personally, I fear I will stay with what I said.

And, while on the subject, we talked about it a bit, I had my straps too loose also on my plate. I could not figure out why I had to leave the straps so loose, so I cinched them up but then I could not get in and out of the harness. I solved this problem by cutting new slots below the original slots. Now, at least for my body and my acl injured shoulders, I can adjust the straps to a length that allows me to easily get in and out and not be uncomfortable and yet the tank/wing/plate does not float away.

Another possible solution for Saltigati is to use integrated weights and or a heavier tank removing weight from his weight belt (assuming he is using a weight belt). I have found that integrated weights reduce the tendency for the rig to float away/gap from the divers body. Of course, integrated weights are not vintage :wink: but neither are wings and puppy footprint webbing :lol: .

Now, what I want is hippie era webbing. That would be vintage with peace symbols and flowers alternating on a rainbow hued background, in .090 thick resin impregnated "scuba" webbing. Worn with appropriately short cutoff Levi bell bottom jean shorts and a tie dyed T shirt and I would be saying things like, "peace out you old double hose scuba dudes" and "down with the man" etc.

Now Luis, did you not think I would have an answer :lol: .

Oh, I did not have my glasses on when I saw the photo, it sure looked like leopard spots to me :mrgreen:

Nem

saltigagt
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:55 am

Hi guys, thank you so much for your feedbacks and inputs. Well, here's what I've done so far.

1. HPR - remove the washers, turned the 2nd stage 180 degrees counter clockwise and secure with washers, lever adjusted 2-3mm above the rim of the cans
2. IP steady at 130psi, cracks slightly below 1 inch :D
3. Added crotch strap

Have not gotten a chance to try it out yet. Will keep you guys posted on the outcome.

Straps issues, its crossed at the back. I chose the soft webbing because i dive without wetsuits or rashguard, so softer materials are actually 'friendlier' on my skin :) as for the puppy paws, just personal choice.. :wink: I do have a spare webbing which is plain white and way stiffer and if the puppy paws keeps slipping, i will swap to that and that should solve the slipping problems.

As to weight, i wear 1 pc 1KG weight on my weight belt, i can go without the weight, but when the tanks get low (~50bar), i will be positive buoyant, and problem doing my safety stop. Would strapping the weight to the tank help you think?

Thank you guys so much for your help!

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luis
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:15 am

saltigagt wrote: As to weight, i wear 1 pc 1KG weight on my weight belt, i can go without the weight, but when the tanks get low (~50bar), i will be positive buoyant, and problem doing my safety stop. Would strapping the weight to the tank help you think?
I would move that weight to your tank. The 1 kg (2.2 Lb) is not much, but it will still help the tank from lifting away from your body as it is getting empty. You are using an aluminum tank (AL80) and they are known to be a bit buoyant toward the end of a dive.

When I am in warm water (the Caribbean) I wear a 3mm wet suit and with that I need a few some weights to be neutral. I end up putting about 4 to 6 Lb (1.8 to 2.7 kg) directly on my tank. It really helps keep my tank touching my back in a swimming position and on the surface when I put air in my wing it I can easily stay vertical. On the surface the buoyancy of an AL80 (and a bit of air in a wing) would tend to push forward if I didn’t put some weight directly on the tank.

Note: In the Caribbean most of the rental tanks are AL80.

As I mentioned above, I personally prefer the stiff straps, but I can see in your situation that soft straps would work better. Instead of giving up on them I would try a sternum strap to hold your shoulder straps in place.

A sternum strap is very commonly used by backpackers (for hiking and mountaineering) and it works well. I don’t always feel like I need it, but I have it installed on all my harnesses. The strap is a 1 inch (or 3/4 inch) strap with a quick release buckle that crosses about the middle of your chest to hold the shoulder straps in place.

The addition of a crotch strap and a sternum strap gives the harness definitive control of the load. It is not quite like a parachute harness, but close. Your tank will not shift. I personally find it very comfortable and prefer the security of not having the tank moving around. It also works well with the soft scuba straps.


Nemrod wrote: Now, what I want is hippie era webbing. That would be vintage with peace symbols and flowers alternating on a rainbow hued background, in .090 thick resin impregnated "scuba" webbing. Worn with appropriately short cutoff Levi bell bottom jean shorts and a tie dyed T shirt and I would be saying things like, "peace out you old double hose scuba dudes" and "down with the man" etc.

Nem
That is groovy man… far out… 8)

I could not find some peace sign straps for you, but I am still looking. :lol:
Luis

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SurfLung
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:33 am

Nemrod wrote:... The problem with floppy webbing:

1. It is difficult to put the harness on, stiffer webbing will hold a shape facilitating entry, important for some people (like me with double acl injuries) more perhaps than others and especially helpful when wearing suits that limit movement.

2. The soft webbing tends to slip it's position within buckles.

3. The soft webbing tends to shift/slip on the divers body.

4. It lacks durability

And I could probably come up with more reasons.
- I have to agree... I put a lot of work into making the webbing for my back plate out of that '70s soft black stuff with the yellow strip in the middle. It looks really sharp but has all the problems you list. I don't use it.
Image
- When I get some time, I'm going to make a new harness for this back plate and I'd like to do it with cotton webbing. I'm using that right now with a "traveler" back pad and I really like it.
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Boiler81
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:40 pm

Would someone be so kind to post photos/instructions on threading the webbing?

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Bryan
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:08 pm

Boiler81 wrote:Would someone be so kind to post photos/instructions on threading the webbing?
Here is the link with pictures
Click Here
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luis
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:11 pm

Boiler81 wrote:Would someone be so kind to post photos/instructions on threading the webbing?
I am going to try in the next couple of weeks to get some good pictures of the webbing.

I am going to use two different color webbing just to illustrate it better. There seems to be a lot of confusion on how to thread the plate. I see a lot of back-plates with the webbing going over the top edge, etc.

It seems to be difficult to take pictures that clearly show the path of the webbing. If you look back through this tread you will find some previous attempts that I made, but they don’t seem to be clear. I will try again.
Luis

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Boiler81
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:07 pm

Thank you
luis wrote:
Boiler81 wrote:Would someone be so kind to post photos/instructions on threading the webbing?
I am going to try in the next couple of weeks to get some good pictures of the webbing.

I am going to use two different color webbing just to illustrate it better. There seems to be a lot of confusion on how to thread the plate. I see a lot of back-plates with the webbing going over the top edge, etc.

It seems to be difficult to take pictures that clearly show the path of the webbing. If you look back through this tread you will find some previous attempts that I made, but they don’t seem to be clear. I will try again.

Boiler81
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Re: New From VDH (Universal back plate with vintage spirit)

Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:14 pm

Luis:

I went back to the earlier posts in this thread and found the photos on page five to be very clear and useful. My issue now is it does not appear as if I have enough webbing for the harness. I received a 9 ft length of webbing with the kit.

I have two 4 1/2 ft pieces of old webbing I am using to trial fit a harness. When I string it per the photos on page 5 I can't come close to getting the waist strap around me. I am 6' and 210 lbs. This is bigger than average but certainly not the the end of the bell curve.

Scott
luis wrote:
Boiler81 wrote:Would someone be so kind to post photos/instructions on threading the webbing?
I am going to try in the next couple of weeks to get some good pictures of the webbing.

I am going to use two different color webbing just to illustrate it better. There seems to be a lot of confusion on how to thread the plate. I see a lot of back-plates with the webbing going over the top edge, etc.

It seems to be difficult to take pictures that clearly show the path of the webbing. If you look back through this tread you will find some previous attempts that I made, but they don’t seem to be clear. I will try again.

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