My new (to me) compressor

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captain
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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:18 pm

I have a USD Cyclone compressor I bought new in 1968. The Cyclone is a 3.5 cfm compressor built by Luchard and replaced the Alize. The filter tower had a built in backpressure valve. There were relief valves screwed into the top and bottom ends of the filter tower. It is possible that what you are assuming to be a relief valve is or was a backpressure valve. Post some pictures of the disassembled valve and I maybe able to determine which. Except for the tubing and fittings all fasteners are US. My main concern would be the condition of the inside of the filters. The one filter it came with only used activated carbon. When exposed to excessive water it produces sulfuric acid which causes rust. Having the molecular sieve before the carbon plus frequent draining of accumulated water is a must.
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Bryan
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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm

The info above from Bill and Tom isn't in any book...Only comes from experience and wisdom. We are lucky to have you guys around!

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Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:12 pm

captain wrote:I have a USD Cyclone compressor I bought new in 1968. The Cyclone is a 3.5 cfm compressor built by Luchard and replaced the Alize. The filter tower had a built in backpressure valve. There were relief valves screwed into the top and bottom ends of the filter tower. It is possible that what you are assuming to be a relief valve is or was a backpressure valve. Post some pictures of the disassembled valve and I maybe able to determine which. Except for the tubing and fittings all fasteners are US. My main concern would be the condition of the inside of the filters. The one filter it came with only used activated carbon. When exposed to excessive water it produces sulfuric acid which causes rust. Having the molecular sieve before the carbon plus frequent draining of accumulated water is a must.


I appreciate the information. :) Definitely working on getting the pictures together for you guys. I'm just running a little behind with other projects. The manual calls it a relief valve, but doesn't say specifically for what function, so it could be a backpressure valve...and the picture of the filter in the manual is a little different in outer appearance than the two I have, and it may be different internally as well. I hope my forthcoming pics will help determine.
Alize US Divers.pdf-P6.jpg

When I got it, as part of a general overall teardown and cleanup, I took the filters apart and thoroughly cleaned them up, and they were a mess. The round perforated screens (#11) were about rotted away, but the condensation jar (#15) as well as the internal filter case (#14) were fine, just cruddy and ugly. Cleaned up well.

The deal came with a half gallon each of activated carbon, activated alumina, and compressor oil. Anderol 500 I believe it's called. I looked it up and they are still in business, but one of the questions I wanted to ask you guys was if that was appropriate oil for this compressor.
Anyway, thanks again and I'll be getting pics soon. :D
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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:58 pm

Bryan wrote:The info above from Bill and Tom isn't in any book...Only comes from experience and wisdom. We are lucky to have you guys around!

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

I couldn't agree more, and if I haven't already said it, I am very grateful for the knowledge that's represented here. There's no substitute for experience. :D

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captain
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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:18 pm

The relief valve appears to be the same as on mine but the drawing seems to be missing an O Ring. Question, part #4. the clapperette, does it have a hole through the middle and small holes on the side at the top end. If so there should be an O ring that goes on top of the brass washer. The way it works is pressure pushes the capperette up until the small holes are pushed past the O ring and air is vented through the center of the clapperette and out the small holes. If you didn't find the O ring look inside the body (#1). Either it is bad or missing.
I don't see a backpressure valve. Ideally the backpressure valve would be installed between the sieve tower and the carbon tower..
I have used Anderol 500 but there are other synthetic compressor oils that are as good or better such as CF-1000 Synthetic Oil or CF-500 Blended Semi-Synthetic Oil A from Global Scuba Supply,
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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:12 pm

captain wrote:The relief valve appears to be the same as on mine but the drawing seems to be missing an O Ring. Question, part #4. the clapperette, does it have a hole through the middle and small holes on the side at the top end. If so there should be an O ring that goes on top of the brass washer. The way it works is pressure pushes the capperette up until the small holes are pushed past the O ring and air is vented through the center of the clapperette and out the small holes. If you didn't find the O ring look inside the body (#1). Either it is bad or missing.


Thanks, Captain,
I think you just solved it. There is no o-ring in my setup, and since the picture didn't show it, I didn't expect to have it. I'm gonna go see if I can find a tiny o-ring and see how it works.
In my initial post where I said I didn't understand how it COULD work...now it makes sense. :D

Also, I have taken the pictures asked for, and still have to scale them to fit the website requirements, so after a little bit I'll get those up here.
Looking optimistic!?

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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:31 am

Here's what I have so far. I still need to get a shot of the relief valve thread that screws into the body.
If you need anything else please let me know. I think real progress is being made! Thanks everybody.

First picture; the underside of the top of the filter assembly, shows a small conical filter with it's allen screw retainer, which is not described in the manual.
relief-valve-body-inside.jpg

Second pic; Hole on right is not used. The left side hole is where relief valve screws into. Note that I have two of these filter tower assemblies, but only one of them has the "teflon valve seat" (#5 in picture - page 6 of ALIZE manual) which would sit in the bottom of that hole. This is obviously not that one. This is the one that came with the relief valve port plugged. Other than that - both filter towers are the same.
relief-valve-body-top.jpg

Third pic shows the little holes in the stem of the clappette valve, which meet at the left (seat) end. Pic doesn't show the o-ring...didn't have one when I got it. The section of the stem where the o-ring would be is about .104" It is smaller than I have been able to locate thus far. Going to look online, somewhere. Ideas?
relief-valve-inner.jpg
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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:25 am

relief-valve-clappette-spec.jpg
Measurements of the relief valve's clappette stem. I'm thinking I should get a high quality oil resistant o-ring, maybe a flat sided, about 3/32" ID.
Would that be too small, or tight?
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antique diver
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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:24 am

That's a good clarification of how the simple relief valve works!
Looks like the valve body seals against #5 teflon washer at the bottom of the hole, so it's really just a gasket, and other materials might be just fine. If you don't have that, a copper washer is commonly used in similar sealing situations. The threads and sealing method appear to be a simple straight thread depending upon the washer to seal instead of threads. In common use today in Bauer separator tops, among other places.

The oring could be a metric, or even a standard size such as -005 might work. I think that you may want to try a small assortment of similar sizes to find a gently snug fit over the 0.104" shaft and in the bore it runs in. I would probably even add an appropriate sized backup ring on the top end to help prevent extrusion of the oring. Some similar valve stem arrangements use 90 durometer orings, especially if you don't have space for a backup on the outbound side, but at 2400 psi you are probably ok with the "normal" 70. Sometimes I use a 90 durometer oring as a backup ring to the main 70 duro oring. Works pretty good on much higher (5000-6000 psi) and 2400 isn't that hard to seal up.

If you don't have an easy and helpful source for orings, drop me an email with your mailing address, and I'll be glad to send a few sizes for you to experiment with. If you need a washer for #5, give me an OD that would drop readily into the threaded receptacle for the valve body, and I'll see if I have anything in copper or Teflon. If it fits too tight it will spread out and may be difficult to remove later.

Lucky that Captain has one of these compressors too, and can lend his direct experience.

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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:35 am

Yes the "seat" is not a seat just a nylon gasket to seal the relief valve. Although the treads are 1/4" TPT it seals with the gasket. A nylon washer of the correct size should work. Available at most hardware stores. The hole shown as the small hole in the 1st picture appears to be the filter outlet to the fill whip. Apparently the set screw and sinthered filter is only for the relief valve, a good idea because of the extremely small outlet hole in the clapperette. Are there any threads in the "not used" hole in the 2nd picture.

Air and condensate enters through the tube in the center of the filter and condensate is collected at the bottom. The air then travels up through the carbon and out the small hole to the fill whip..
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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:31 pm

Thanks gentlemen! :D
I mean it sincerely. I would have been scratching my head forever, and from personal experience, I recognize that is a mostly futile response. :|
Glad to not have to victimize myself to that extent. Again. :wink:

Mr. Antique Diver, I'll be requesting your assistance with those seals, as you so kindly offered.
When this thing is working as the factory intended, I'll be pretty darned happy. Actually, I'm feeling better already. 8)

Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind:
From the third stage, I put the filter with activated alumina first, then into the filter with activated carbon, right?
And since I have two filters but only one pressure relief valve, which filter should that be on?
Thanks again!
relief_valve-plug.jpg
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captain
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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:40 pm

Forget the activated alumna, use 13X molecular sieve. Sieve is first to dry the air before the carbon . Put the relief valve on the Last filter to protect the whole system.
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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:40 pm

captain wrote:Yes the "seat" is not a seat just a nylon gasket to seal the relief valve. Although the treads are 1/4" TPT it seals with the gasket. A nylon washer of the correct size should work. Available at most hardware stores. The hole shown as the small hole in the 1st picture appears to be the filter outlet to the fill whip. Apparently the set screw and sinthered filter is only for the relief valve, a good idea because of the extremely small outlet hole in the clapperette. Are there any threads in the "not used" hole in the 2nd picture.

Air and condensate enters through the tube in the center of the filter and condensate is collected at the bottom. The air then travels up through the carbon and out the small hole to the fill whip..

Yes, there are threads in that "not used" hole, but no other holes in it...thanks. :)

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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:45 pm

captain wrote:Forget the activated alumna, use 13X molecular sieve. Sieve is first to dry the air before the carbon . Put the relief valve on the Last filter to protect the whole system.

Thanks! :D

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Re: My new (to me) compressor

Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:14 pm

Update; AntiqueDiver is sending some small o-rings, so I can try and find what I need to make this relief valve function.
I feel like a little kid at Christmas, again, and will update this thread when the Alize is working 100%. :D
"Thank you" to everybody who is helping me get it going!
:mrgreen:

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