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Discussion of diving methods and equipment available prior to the development of BCDs beyond the horse collar. This forum is dedicated to the pre-1970 diving.
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DaveMann
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First Name: Dave
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Rebuilding Vintage DH Regulators

Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:03 am

While I have enjoyed the sport of diving for quite some time, I have never taken any equipment apart or repaired anything. Please forgive me if this is a silly question or been covered elsewhere and I just missed it.

Here is what I know (or think I know):

An original two stage regulator has a first stage that appears to be part of the yoke assembly and the second stage is in the large round can that the first stage is mounted to. Am I right so far?

Here is what I don't know:

It's my understanding that a Phoenix 1st stage can be retro fitted onto a vintage regulator replacing the entire vintage first stage, and that an HPR 2nd stage can be retrofitted into the can which replaces the old 2nd stage. Yes?

So if you replace the first and second stages of a two stage regulator with a Phoenix and an HPR is there any original regulator left besides the vintage can? And, other than the hoses what, if any, other parts must be replaced so that the vintage regulator can be considered completely rebuilt?

Thanks in advance

Dave

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Bryan
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Re: Rebuilding Vintage DH Regulators

Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:11 am

Main diaphragm SHOULD be updated to make full use of the HPR's abilities. You will need to replace the exhaust valve with either a new duckbill or a DBE, DuckBill Eliminator (see store)
Hoses should be checked to insure they are still flexible with no tears or holes. Mouthpiece valves should be replaced.
With the integration of the Phoenix first stage, HPR 2nd stage and the items above the regulator is about as rebuilt as possible and will be a great regulator to dive with.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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DaveMann
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Re: Rebuilding Vintage DH Regulators

Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:28 pm

Thanks, Bryan.

The hybrid vintage DH regulator is feeling more and more like the piece that is going to work for me. I should start looking for a vintage reg that has had these modifications made already.

Dave

DAAquamaster
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Re: Rebuilding Vintage DH Regulators

Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:41 pm

DaveMann wrote:So if you replace the first and second stages of a two stage regulator with a Phoenix and an HPR is there any original regulator left besides the vintage can? And, other than the hoses what, if any, other parts must be replaced so that the vintage regulator can be considered completely rebuilt?
Dave,

Aqualung called the "first stage" the "nozzle" (PN 1012-12) on the DA Aqua Master and Royal Aqua Master. It contained a built in orifice that sealed against the seat, and it contained the seat, spring and spring block as well as the filter and a retainer ring to hold it all in place. The nozzle also served as the yoke retainer and the whole assembly screwed into the regulator Body (PN 1012-03).

The "Body" is the main part of the regulator as it connects the yoke and nozzle with the rear can - called the "Box Top" (PN 1012-06), - and contains the rest of the first stage parts including the pin, support, diaphragm, pad, spring retainer, spring and adjusting screw. It also contains the second stage orifice and second stage parts including the second stage seat (disc) and retainer, spring and seat holder, as well as the lock supports, lever (horse shoe) and the required screws, nuts, washers and gaskets.

The Body IS the regulator for all intents and purposes and in 1965 it was the third most expensive part in the regulator at $12.07, behind the box top at $12.80 and the complete hose and mouthpiece assembly at $12.95. The box bottom (front can) cost $11.00 and the complete valve assembly (nozzle and everything inside it) was $10.00, with all the other parts being in the single digit price range.

If you covert a DA to a PRAM with the Phoenix first stage, the HPR second stage, a DBE, a band clamp ring, and do all the potential upgrades of the soft parts (first and second stage diaphragms, mouthpiece mushroom valves, wagon wheels, hoses and mouthpiece) you'll have the following original parts still left in the regulator:

1012-03 Body
1012-08 Cap (you can replace this with a hookah port adapter, but there is no need on a PRAM)
1000-34 Gasket (between the body and the Box Top)
1000-05 Spring Retainer
1000-39 Pad
1000-40 Spring
1023-43 Screw, Adjusting
1012-06 Box Top
1000-14 Ring (which screws on to the reg body to secure the Box Top to the regulator Body
1012-11 Box Bottom

Or in other words, as long as you have these parts, you can build a PRAM.

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Bryan
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Re: Rebuilding Vintage DH Regulators

Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:00 pm

As I told you on the phone.....DA Aqua-Masters are the Toyota Corolla of double hose regulators.......They come in shiny or matte finish chrome and are all identical inside. Don't pay a fortune for one as there is no real advantage to doing so. After the conversion one is just as good as another.

Royal Masters/Royal Aqua Masters...(as I'm sure your reading has told you) are a balanced first stage (so is the Phoenix) and were the Cadillac of double hose in their day and command more $$$ now. Since you are replacing the first stage there is no real advantage to paying extra for one.

Voit Navy's will work for the conversion too but they were far fewer of them made but the only difference between a DA Aqua Master and a Voit Navy being purely cosmetic. If it says VOIT on the label it will cost you more $$$

No other regulators work for the Phoenix/HPR conversion so shop smart.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Herman
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Re: Rebuilding Vintage DH Regulators

Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:30 pm

Dave,

You will find it useful to go the "manuals and catalogs" section and do some research. I think looking over the service manual for these regs may help answer a lot of your questions. To find the manual do this.
Go to the VDH home page and dropping ALL THE WAY down to the bottom of the page- it's a ways down. On the bottom right you will see a link to the M&C section. Once in it, work your way to the page were you see the names brands of regulators, starting with "A's", drop to the bottom of the screen and select page 2 then go to the bottom of page 2 where you will see "US Divers manuals, testing, ect" , click on that folder. Now you should see 7 yellow folders at the top of the screen, if not you are on page 2 , if you are, drop to the bottom of the page and select page 1 (mine does this for some reason). On page 1 select the "Aqualung repair manual" and down load it. I think studying it will help a lot.

While you are in the M&C section, look around, there is a lot of info on diving DH regs, on parts like the Phoenix and HPR as well as a lot of other info. It is well worth your time to poke around In there.
Herman

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Bryan
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Re: Rebuilding Vintage DH Regulators

Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:56 pm

Direct Link to USD Manuals, testing, parts drawing etc......Ron and I have been working on some stuff again :wink:

CLICK HERE
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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DaveMann
Lung Diver
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:12 am
First Name: Dave
Location: Fort Myers, Fla., USA

Re: Rebuilding Vintage DH Regulators

Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:05 pm

@ DAAquamaster - Your explanation is clear beyond exception. I don't know if it could have been better said. You helped me immeasurably. Thank you very much.

@ Herman and Bryan - To find people such as yourselves who help newcomers make the transition from ignorant to at least having a clue makes the transition so much more pleasurable.


Dave

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