Vintage Double Hose

Is anyone having difficulty keeping their Safe 2nd stage/Octopus from free flowing when using the higher IP settings(145-160) on the Royals and Phoenix regulators?
I am wondering if this is what could have caused my 2nd stage to freeflow out of control when I was in the Keys last month?? Luis sent me a lever for my old standby safe 2nd stage and it free flows like crazy unless I crank the IP back to around 135psi….

Bryan,

Try shimming the second stage poppet spring with a thin, corrosion resistant washer. This will increase the spring tension, yet maintain the lever's position. If you change the lever's position, then you will not get the full range of motion necessary for maximum separation of the hard and soft seats. I would not stretch the spring in an attempt to lengthen it, as this seldom works in an accurate manner.

I would adjust the second stage to where it has a cracking effort of 1.5-1.7", and this should be fine for its intended purpose. This is easy to check in a large container of water. You can measure from the diaphragm's position and put temporary marks at the two distances. Slowly lower the second stage with the mouthpiece perpendicular to the water's surface. I would check it a couple of times for accuracy.

Greg

Most of my safe seconds are either the Oceanic Swivel or the Oceanic Slim octopus. I make sure they are tuned to free flow at a higher pressure than the double hose second stage.

I try to tune the DH second stage to free flow at about 160 to 170 PSI. I do this by picking the spring and backing the spring retainer (in increments of 120 degrees, but not so far that the keepers will not hold it). This procedure is not necessarily recommended if you want to play it safe.

The octopus that I use are not high performance to start of with (by choice, and I can buy them used for cheep), and I make sure they are adjusted accordingly.

I then adjust the IP to 145 to 155 psi. Not only the DH regulator performs great, but even the low performance octopus are perform very well. They will go into a free flow when I go in the water if I don't flood them right away.

I also like this octopus because they are low profile and the plastic case does not make noise or hurt any of my vintage gear when it bangs against it.

I guess I phrased the question wrong.

At what IP pressure are most octopus/2nd stages designed to work at?


My guess is that MOST are designed to operate at a lower IP pressure than we are currently running the Royals and Phoenix regulators at.


.

I would say the average would be 130-140 psi. Most octos will start to free flow above 160.

From my observation, I agree with Karl. But, you can adjust them to free-flow a bit higher (detune them) by either following Greg suggestion or some (like the ones I use) have an adjustable orifice and independent lever high adjustment via a lock nut.

I realize this doesn't help you much since the one you have doesn't have an independent spring tension adjustment.

Free flowing of my octapus is why I dropped my IPs back from 150-160 to 140 give or take. I still may run a bit higher than this, I use the Tekna often as my octapus and it works well with high IP. I am not sure if the Sea Turtle second I also use cares.

James

Most second stages are designed to operate within a range of 120-145 psi. 150 to 155 shoudl not be too much of a stretch for most of them, although single adjustment designs could begin to encounter problems with lever height that is too low.

A dual adjustment design hoowever works well at that pressure. As posted above, you can set the spring pressure/orifice separate from the lever height and that will allow the increased spring pressure without having a lever position that is too low to allow easy purging or that limts the range of travel for the valve poppet.

I have personally had good luck with a Conshelf XII second stage on my PRAM with the IP set at 155 psi. It breathes really well at this IP but has not shown any tendency to freeflow.

All the above are great ideas and are right on, but tne next time you get a poseidon cyclon 300 2nd stage in your grasp use it. Yes they are different but they were also designed and can be used at the higher IP's up to 170 + - 5psi. The old cyclon 300 2nd stage can use all the rebuild kits parts for the 2nd stage cyclon 5000 except for the mouthpiece as the housing mouthpieces are different sizes. I am currently using one on my phoenix witht the IP set at 150 with no problem. JMO.

SDAquamaster wrote:

I have personally had good luck with a Conshelf XII second stage on my PRAM with the IP set at 155 psi. It breathes really well at this IP but has not shown any tendency to freeflow.

I'm using a Conshelf XIV with my Phoenix, and it never free flows. I'm not sure what I.P. my Phoenix is set to though; it's whatever Bryan put it at when he installed it..

Many octos actually use a different spring than a normal 2nd stage. I know that the Genesis and Sherwood springs are colored red on the ends to tell them apart. Also I believe the early TUSA had the same thing. An adjustable 2nd should actually do the trick. That's where the old Scubapros and USD's come in. I have my PRAM set at around 155 and my genesis is fine.

Bryan,

I don't have factory manuals right now; but, if I remember right, the dacor pacer xl second stage was designed for a higher IP than most other regulator second stages at the same time period it was made. One way they got them, pacer 900 series regs, to breath really easy. Ok, this is really bogging down my memory banks; but, I think they were adjusted to 165 psi or something like that. Most other single hoses were 130 to 140.

Just have to check the manuals for the second stage your using. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Robert