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Discussion of diving methods and equipment available prior to the development of BCDs beyond the horse collar. This forum is dedicated to the pre-1970 diving.
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Bronze06
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подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:44 pm

Hey Folks,

Finally got around to modifying my Soviet era ABM-1M (AVM-1M in english) Submariner (Podvodnik or in Russian подводник) regulator.

Contrary to what most people think, it is a two stage regulator, not a single stage. This is made clear on page 38 of the Soviet Manual of Scuba Diving. It operates as a down stream system with the Russians calling the first stage a "lever reducer" and the second stage being referred to as " valve of automatic device". The reg does have a hefty overpressure relief valve to stop damage to " reducer" and should release at 165 BAR (2393.12 PSI). The reg is rated for a max "pressure forward of the reducer" ie; tank pressure, of 150 BAR or 2175.57 PSI, so sorry, no tanks greater than 2250psi and no PLUS (+) do-dads for this baby, or you'll pop it like a cork, meaning your HP diaphragm will blow out! Gee how do I know about this little nugget of knowledge.....Hmmmm? How to adjust it you say? Fill a tank and let it cool and ensure that it has approximately 165 BAR in it and adjust your overpressure valve until it stops hissing, then tighten down another 1/8th of a turn. Check with a tank of 170 BAR and the valve should leak, then subside. Works for me, you know, tweak the leak.
ABM-1M.jpg
ABM-1M mouthpiece.jpg
ABM-1M 3.jpg

No wonder I see so many pictures of this gizmo with dual tanks. The Russians appear to be using the equivalent of our 36cuf, LP dual tanks in most pictures of the AVM (ABM) in use. Since I have machinists available that do excellent turning work over here, I had an old yoke assembly modified to thread metrically to my AVM. I dive it in the pool tomorrow.
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"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:09 pm

Page 19 of Soviet Scuba.jpg
Page 37 Soviet Scuba.jpg
Page 38 Soviet Scuba.jpg
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"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:24 pm

page 39 Soviet Scuba.jpg
Page 40 Soviet Scuba.jpg
Page 41 Soviet Scuba.jpg
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"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

Vancetp
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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:23 pm

Just to make sure no one mistakenly buys the wrong Soviet regulator, I want to point out that the Soviet/Russian two hose regulators you see currently on eBay are NOT 2 stage regs, and they are not AVM-1Ms. And they are not single stage regs, either!

They are the AVM-3, which is a SECOND STAGE, not single stage, reg that requires the use of a remote first stage. DO NOT connect the AVM-3 to a tank w/o a first stage in between! They are recognizable by the 2 port LP connection pipe that sticks down prominently. The two regs share the same or very similar bottom can, cloth covered hoses, and metal mouthpieces. Their similarity looks-wise might be the reason people are confused and think the AVM-1M is a single stage regulator.

Russ,
The Sportsways doublehose non-return valve cages EDIT: ( are just slightly larger than the openings on your metal mp. INCORRECT! I forgot what I had to do to fit them. They actually fit inside w/o shaving, but need a small cutout on one edge to fit around the MP tube.) If you can get ahold of some they are easy to modify and get inside! A perfect seal could be accomplished with an o-ring groove or two.

ImageIMG_3039 by Vancetp, on Flickr

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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:39 am

Phil is correct about the two main types of Soviet regs out there. Below is the AVM/ABM-3
AVM-3.jpg

Some of the components such as the actuator diaphragm, duck-bill, exhaust can and can rings can be used by both ABM-1 and ABM-3. The AVM-3 was used in the SHAP-62 set up almost exclusively. The 1st stage is nestled down into the three tank maze of the SHAP-62. There's a complete set on eBay for $300 frogskins plus $200 shipping from Ukraine.
SHAP-62.jpg
In the picture below in the lower left, you can see the 1st stage.
SHAP-62 II.jpg


By the way, what looks like a "B" in Russian is actually pronounced as "V", so you will see me jump back and forth between the two. Great idea, by the way, about using those "Sportsways" wagon wheels in the Russky mouthpiece. What I will probably do, however, is use my Russian DSV that has its own check valves. That is the one I used on my "What If' Scubapro had made a Double Hose Regulator" spoof on Youtube. Then again, I just might keep in ala CG45.
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"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:27 pm

I'm working on a yoke adapter for the AVM-1M. It will replace the silver fitting (filter holder) that screws into the body. It should reduce the length of the assembly by 1/2 - 3/4 inch or so, so the reg isn't pushed so hard outward. It will still be a bit long, but I should be able to get it minimized. I need to get some 1 1/4" brass stock tomorrow, so I can start making chips! The adapter will utilize a USD yoke.

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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:06 pm

Man Russian gear looks so much more convoluted than western gear. Weird, because in the firearms world it's the exact opposite.

Document more if you get time.. There's a lack of info on the USSR dive gear.
The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed. -JYC

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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:33 am

Ron wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:06 pm
Man Russian gear looks so much more convoluted than western gear. Weird, because in the firearms world it's the exact opposite.

Document more if you get time.. There's a lack of info on the USSR dive gear.
Hey Ron,

Just got a copy of the Soviet Diving manual that was translated back in the 80s to English. It is fairly comprehensive and includes descriptions of not only the USSR stuff but the Russky view and use of Warsaw Pact and western equipment. The translation is very direct, so sometimes you have to just take a SWAG as to what he is referring to. If anyone needs certain specs on a given Soviet reg. I now have them so just chime in if you need it, and I'll send you what I have or post it here.
"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:05 pm

So, I've been turning large pieces of brass into chips lately. I made two different types of yoke adapter for the AVM-1M. One uses a threaded yoke nut and yoke from a Conshelf VI, and the other is a slip-over type using a DAAM yoke.

This one is the Conshelf long yoke, which will allow the use of a banjo SPG.

ImageIMG_4481 by Vancetp, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4486 by Vancetp, on Flickr

This one is the DAAM yoke.

ImageIMG_4492 by Vancetp, on Flickr

I made these with the intention of getting the reg back as far toward the tank valve as possible. I may re-machine the installed one to try to get another 3/16" back. That might be ambitious. You don't see a sintered filter because these have an internal screen.

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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:48 am

Bronze06 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:33 am
Just got a copy of the Soviet Diving manual that was translated back in the 80s to English. It is fairly comprehensive and includes descriptions of not only the USSR stuff but the Russky view and use of Warsaw Pact and western equipment. The translation is very direct, so sometimes you have to just take a SWAG as to what he is referring to. If anyone needs certain specs on a given Soviet reg. I now have them so just chime in if you need it, and I'll send you what I have or post it here.
I have a copy not only of the same English translation but also of the Russian original. As a French and German language specialist with a smattering of Russian, I can confirm the general reliability of the translation when I've been researching Soviet diving suits, masks and fins. I don't have the subject-matter expertise to pass judgement on the quality of translation in the parts relating to Soviet underwater breathing apparatus. However, as they say, "even Homer nods", and there is the occasional "schoolboy howler" in the translation, such as "Изготовляется с круглым и овальным смотровым стеклом" being rendered as "It is made with round and oval sport glass" when describing the following Soviet diving mask:
SovietDiveMask.jpg
Here the translator has misread "смотровое стекло" as "спортивное стекло". The former means "glass for looking through", or simply "lens", "visor" or "viewport", so a better rendering would have been "It is made with a round or oval lens." Other irritants are cultural, such as the persistent use of "helmet" in the English translation to render the Russian term "шлем" when the latter can denote any diving outer head covering, from a standard-gear "hard hat" made of copper to a scuba diver's soft drysuit hood made of thin rubber.

My recommendation is that the reader of this English translation should be aware that translation is both art and science and that even the best translators make unfortunate judgement calls now and again, which is why I go back to the Russian original sometimes when the text doesn't feel right.
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Vancetp
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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:42 am

I had a hard copy of the Soviet Diver's Manual, but now only have a partial digital copy of the parts pertaining to the regulators. The book is interesting reading for those with any curiousity about Soviet diving equipment and practices. The translation is difficult sometimes esp. when technical. It is a good reference in any case. They are sometimes available for a few $$ on Amazon and other online book sellers.

You can get a look at a good chunk, if not all of it here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=sTLJh ... &q&f=false

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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:54 am

Vancetp wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:05 pm
So, I've been turning large pieces of brass into chips lately. I made two different types of yoke adapter for the AVM-1M. One uses a threaded yoke nut and yoke from a Conshelf VI, and the other is a slip-over type using a DAAM yoke.

This one is the Conshelf long yoke, which will allow the use of a banjo SPG.

ImageIMG_4481 by Vancetp, on Flickr

ImageIMG_4486 by Vancetp, on Flickr

This one is the DAAM yoke.

ImageIMG_4492 by Vancetp, on Flickr

I made these with the intention of getting the reg back as far toward the tank valve as possible. I may re-machine the installed one to try to get another 3/16" back. That might be ambitious. You don't see a sintered filter because these have an internal screen.
Well done.
"Where'd ya get that ol' thang, don't cha' know them thare things ill kill ya!"

Live From the Red Sea,

Russ

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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:15 pm

Very nice adapter you made, Phillip! I wish I had the skills to turn threads like that, but it's beyond my elementary level. Sure wish one you machinist's lived near me so I could learn a few things.
The older I get the better I was.

Vancetp
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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:41 am

Thanks, gents!

If you have access to a lathe, I suggest watching any Youtube video on machining by Joe Pie. He, and others, have made zilions of really informative videos concerning lots of different techniques for various lathe work. There are any number of excellent videos on single point threading, including how to make metric threads when your lathe has a 16tpi leadscrew. I have spent many late nights, enthralled, watching these guys perform magic on their lathes and mills.

I am gently leading my wife to the understanding that it is absolutely critical that I buy a mini milling machine, so I can continue to make tiny parts and adapters for things only about 5 people in the world would care about. It's taking some time, but I'm getting there.

I hope.

Vancetp
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Re: подводник (Eng-Podvodnik or Submariner) ABM-1M Soviet Double Hose

Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:02 pm

There is an excruciating scene featuring 3 divers sent into the reactor at Chernobyl in Soviet drysuits and the AVM-3 systems in the excellent mini-series "Chernobyl" on HBO. I don't know why, but they never attach their regulators to the mouthpiece on their suits. It's a must watch for anyone interested in what happened there.

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