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luis
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Re: I DID IT!!

Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:18 pm

swimjim wrote:
ScubaLawyer wrote:
couv wrote:ScubaLawyer, what breed of cat is in your top photo?
That little purebred ball of expensive fluff is a Bengal. Got her 14 years ago from the then-80 year old geneticist lady who invented the breed back in the 1960s. Her full pedigreed name (the cat, not the lady) is Millwood Ritz Le Chat. We call her Ritzy. I know TMI, but I've gotten kinda fond of her. Mark.

Not to hijack the thread, but really cool looking cat Mark! My Chloe is a Tabby/Calico and she is a hoot! :wink:

Jim
I agree she is a great looking cat.
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

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luis
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Re: I DID IT!!

Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:19 pm

guyharrisonphoto wrote:OK, had it on my first dive today. Practiced with the DSV open and closed on surface swims and when removing the mouthpiece underwater, with dropping and retrieving the reg, and with leaving the DSV open, removing, and then clearing.

Got it down squarely between my shoulder blades.

Here are my comments and some questions about the breathing. It is one thing to read the material here and another to actually dive it so some feedback and suggestions on technique would be welcome.

Vertical in water, easy inhale and exhale.

Horizontal, a little more effort on the inhale, can make it easier by slightly angling upward and making sure my head is held upright. Exhale still pretty easy.

Head down, even more effort on inhale and exhale.

Swimming on my side, easy inhale.

But, when on my side with the right side down, the exhaust hose seems to fill with water (not the mouthpiece, no flooding there) so that if I turn on my side to take an easy inhale, then turn back to horizontal for the exhale, it seems like I have to clear all the water out on the exhale, a lot of effort.

If I turn left side down, same easy inhale, but, some water does leak into the supply hose and then the mouthpiece area. Not a lot but a light clear is needed. I do not notice the hard exhale (ie having to clear the hose) if I wait to turn back to horizontal for the exhale. I checked the hoses after the dive and they were snug and tightly clamped on (hand tightening on the hose clamps).

The DSV worked perfectly for surface swims on my back or removing the reg from my mouth underwater. The SPG, computer transmitter, LP inflator, wing and plate all worked perfectly.

Clearing the reg after removing the mouthpiece takes a noticeably strong blow than a single hose reg, but nothing extraordinary. Retrieving a dropped mouthpiece is easy because it floats right above your head.

Am I experiencing basically normal operation?

Thanks!

The breathing perception is natural due to the effect of the water column differential pressure on the cracking effort, but as you get used to it and learn to take advantage of the venturi assist, in time you will notice it less and less. I only notice it when I think about it, but my breathing pattern while diving has changed to take full advantage of the venturi assist.

The side benefit of taking normal full breaths is that it lower my SAC by producing better CO2 ventilation.

There should not be any leaks based on position. I have never experienced or heard about that. Like Creed mentioned, maybe you have some water in the convolutions that are not clearing well, but even that seems odd.

The mouthpiece/ DSV would not seal any different based on position, but when you are in a vertical position (or a horizontal position facing forward), the mouthpiece does have a low point that behaves like a sump. That sump allows you to breath well even if you have not fully cleared all the water out of the mouthpiece. The best way to fully clear (dry) your MP is to blow while slightly rotation your head with the exhaust (left side) low.

Leaks or hard breathing are not normal in any position, but some of the sensations could be just being over sensitive due to the new experiences. To me, it is hard to diagnose based on just one dive.

I would say just try it again and have some fun exploring it.
Luis

Buceador con escafandra autónoma clásica.

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couv
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Re: I DID IT!!

Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:50 pm

luis wrote:
swimjim wrote:
ScubaLawyer wrote:
That little purebred ball of expensive fluff is a Bengal. Got her 14 years ago from the then-80 year old geneticist lady who invented the breed back in the 1960s. Her full pedigreed name (the cat, not the lady) is Millwood Ritz Le Chat. We call her Ritzy. I know TMI, but I've gotten kinda fond of her. Mark.

Not to hijack the thread, but really cool looking cat Mark! My Chloe is a Tabby/Calico and she is a hoot! :wink:

Jim
I agree she is a great looking cat.
Ditto!
A sincere THANK YOU to all at VDH who make this wonderful resource available and to all the thoughtful contributors.

guyharrisonphoto
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First Name: Guy
Location: Fort Lauderdale FL

Re: I DID IT!!

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:00 am

luis wrote:
guyharrisonphoto wrote:OK, had it on my first dive today. Practiced with the DSV open and closed on surface swims and when removing the mouthpiece underwater, with dropping and retrieving the reg, and with leaving the DSV open, removing, and then clearing.

Got it down squarely between my shoulder blades.

Here are my comments and some questions about the breathing. It is one thing to read the material here and another to actually dive it so some feedback and suggestions on technique would be welcome.

Vertical in water, easy inhale and exhale.

Horizontal, a little more effort on the inhale, can make it easier by slightly angling upward and making sure my head is held upright. Exhale still pretty easy.

Head down, even more effort on inhale and exhale.

Swimming on my side, easy inhale.

But, when on my side with the right side down, the exhaust hose seems to fill with water (not the mouthpiece, no flooding there) so that if I turn on my side to take an easy inhale, then turn back to horizontal for the exhale, it seems like I have to clear all the water out on the exhale, a lot of effort.

If I turn left side down, same easy inhale, but, some water does leak into the supply hose and then the mouthpiece area. Not a lot but a light clear is needed. I do not notice the hard exhale (ie having to clear the hose) if I wait to turn back to horizontal for the exhale. I checked the hoses after the dive and they were snug and tightly clamped on (hand tightening on the hose clamps).

The DSV worked perfectly for surface swims on my back or removing the reg from my mouth underwater. The SPG, computer transmitter, LP inflator, wing and plate all worked perfectly.

Clearing the reg after removing the mouthpiece takes a noticeably strong blow than a single hose reg, but nothing extraordinary. Retrieving a dropped mouthpiece is easy because it floats right above your head.

Am I experiencing basically normal operation?

Thanks!

The breathing perception is natural due to the effect of the water column differential pressure on the cracking effort, but as you get used to it and learn to take advantage of the venturi assist, in time you will notice it less and less. I only notice it when I think about it, but my breathing pattern while diving has changed to take full advantage of the venturi assist.

The side benefit of taking normal full breaths is that it lower my SAC by producing better CO2 ventilation.

There should not be any leaks based on position. I have never experienced or heard about that. Like Creed mentioned, maybe you have some water in the convolutions that are not clearing well, but even that seems odd.

The mouthpiece/ DSV would not seal any different based on position, but when you are in a vertical position (or a horizontal position facing forward), the mouthpiece does have a low point that behaves like a sump. That sump allows you to breath well even if you have not fully cleared all the water out of the mouthpiece. The best way to fully clear (dry) your MP is to blow while slightly rotation your head with the exhaust (left side) low.

Leaks or hard breathing are not normal in any position, but some of the sensations could be just being over sensitive due to the new experiences. To me, it is hard to diagnose based on just one dive.

I would say just try it again and have some fun exploring it.
OK, dove it again. this time no leak into the mouthpiece from the supply hose. On the first dive, must have been some water left in there from when I did the drop the mouthpiece and clear drill.

On the exhaust hose, my other post wasn't clear. No water at all ever came into the mouthpiece. What I meant was that, when in the vertical or horizontal position, the air bubble in the hose kept water out of the hose and exhaling was easy. In certain positions (primarily left side down) the hose must flatten out, or the bubble move up towards the mouthpiece, letting air out and water into the exhaust hose so that if I turned back to horizontal I had to do one hard exhale to clear the water out of the hose (not the mouthpiece) This still happened on occasion on the second dive.

Otherwise the breathing was pretty much like I experienced from the first dive. And when I said "harder" I meant in comparison to how the reg breathed when vertical or on my side (both extremely easy) not "hard" to where it was any issue.

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ScubaLawyer
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Re: I DID IT!!

Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:13 pm

Trying to understand but still a bit confused. If you clear the DSV before rotating it to the open position you should never have any water in your exhaust hose. Short of a hole in the exhaust hose or a missing mushroom valve at the DBE there is no mechanism for water to enter that I am aware of. I have dropped a few tanks with regulators attached over the years and unknowingly dove with a cracked hose. I have the new Kraken hoses and they seem very well built. It would take a lot to punch a hole in them. Wish I had a better answer for you. Mark
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

Pedro
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Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:47 am
First Name: Pedro
Location: Wellington NZ

Re: I DID IT!!

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:51 am

ScubaLawyer wrote:Trying to understand but still a bit confused. If you clear the DSV before rotating it to the open position you should never have any water in your exhaust hose. Short of a hole in the exhaust hose or a missing mushroom valve at the DBE there is no mechanism for water to enter that I am aware of. I have dropped a few tanks with regulators attached over the years and unknowingly dove with a cracked hose. I have the new Kraken hoses and they seem very well built. It would take a lot to punch a hole in them. Wish I had a better answer for you. Mark
Since we're on this topic:

During a recent trip to the Philippines I had problems with water leakage. From time to time it would get pretty hard to breathe (think because of water in the hose?). Curiously the shallower the worse, at 15-20m there was no problem at all.

I don't really have the knowledge to pinpoint what was causing it, but I *think* after replacing the mouthpiece with the new DSV I let the plastic thing that tightens the hose to the mouthpiece too loose. Still have to redo the mouthpiece connection to check if it solves the issue.

I know most people around here are very experienced and will probably (and rightfully) facepalm after such silly mistakes, just wanted to share with other newcomers the need to be extra careful with our own (lack of) skills if replacing any parts.


@guy, at first I found breathing with the Kraken odd, since it feels quite different. In my experience, as Luis said you eventually get used to its quirks and learn to enjoy its many pluses. Now I find it "hard" to breath from a normal regulator - not that they're bad, it just doesn't feel right. To me the way the air flows through the loop is far more intuitive and natural than the "either in or out" of a single hose reg.

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couv
Master Diver
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Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:26 pm

Re: I DID IT!!

Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:07 am

guyharrisonphoto wrote: OK, dove it again. this time no leak into the mouthpiece from the supply hose. On the first dive, must have been some water left in there from when I did the drop the mouthpiece and clear drill.

On the exhaust hose, my other post wasn't clear. No water at all ever came into the mouthpiece. What I meant was that, when in the vertical or horizontal position, the air bubble in the hose kept water out of the hose and exhaling was easy. In certain positions (primarily left side down) the hose must flatten out, or the bubble move up towards the mouthpiece, letting air out and water into the exhaust hose so that if I turned back to horizontal I had to do one hard exhale to clear the water out of the hose (not the mouthpiece) This still happened on occasion on the second dive.

Otherwise the breathing was pretty much like I experienced from the first dive. And when I said "harder" I meant in comparison to how the reg breathed when vertical or on my side (both extremely easy) not "hard" to where it was any issue.
Hello Guy,

It seems to me you are attempting to solve two separate issues (a leak in your hose loop & breathing resistance) with one resolution. I use the term "issue" as it is possible you have two, one, or most likely no real discrepancies. When troubleshooting a problem, start with the simple and work toward the complex.

In the case of the hose leak start by disassembling the loop and attach only the supply hose to the supply horn. Install a leak free protective cap in the yoke and inlet or attach the reg to a tank with the air turned off. Draw a breath on the open end of the hose. No leak?--> add the DSV and repeat. No leak? --> add the exhaust hose and repeat. No leak?--> remove the hose from the exhaust horn and draw a breath. If you have a leak somewhere in the loop, it should have revealed itself. If not, and you are convinced you still have a leak, remove the loop, close the DSV and fill the loop with water and find a method of plugging the the end that attaches to the exhaust horn.

Breathing resistance: Before getting too wrapped up trying to find a problem, do this thought experiment (or physical experiment if you prefer.) No need for a regulator-imagine (or take) a 2 or 3 foot tube and immerse it into a deep bucket of water. The deeper the end goes, the more resistance to flow will be noticed. The resistance of course is relative to the depth of the water column. These same physics apply when you change posture in the water.
A sincere THANK YOU to all at VDH who make this wonderful resource available and to all the thoughtful contributors.

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