Phoenix HPR second stage

[captain]

Even in the stock DAAM and RAM the 2nd stage was never designed to be screwed in tight. Screw it in hand tight, if the venturi hole doesn't line up back it out until it does. ON a stock DAAM or RAM it would be 1/3 turn at most. On the HPR it is 1/2 turn at most.
that's why the horseshoe support were designed to hold it in place.

[Robohips77]

Newest serial tag on Phoenix HPR. I had the chance to use it in the pool today at my local YMCA . (8 feet of water ) and at 8 feet I really can not NOW tell the difference between the HPR and the Cycklon that I have dived since 1978. Well done Boys, WELL DONE!!!! can't wait to use in PC

[Bryan]

Bryan and I have been talking about a new square washer to hold the second stage tight and avoid any play. The hole in the washer will have the same clearance that the existing hole so that you can push the washer tight against the second stage body, but the square washer will have a flat long edge to firmly hold the second stage.

The washer will be thick enough to provide a good contact surface even if the second stage body is back out a full turn or more.

Specialty washers have been ordered and will be available in about 2 weeks.

[macado]

I think the square washers will definitely be nice. I tried reversing the lever and backing out the HPR second stage and it still seemed a little lose to me even after swapping the lever to the other side.

It seems that on mine if the HPR lever were to accidentally rotate a bit more the top of the lever then it might get interference from the top of first stage but I dont know if this would actually have any affect on the mechanical advantage or cause issues. Sorry if I am not good at explaining it..

In any case, I used some extra plastic washers to secure the second stage and it seems to be working perfectly now with minimal movement and I am happy with the results.

Going to dive this afternoon with my DA-Aquamaster HPR since I just installed a duckbill eliminator and made some minor adjustments to the lever height.

[Bryan]

Old #7 received a production HPR 2nd stage today after cycling the prototype that Herman made approx 7000 times. This is Phoenix nozzle 06-002 and has not been rebuilt since 2006. I don't dive with it that much but it has been the test regulator for all 2 stage parts since day one. I'm taking it deep on Friday just to see how it flows at 100'+ with two people breathing from it. Experience tells me it will hardly break a sweat.

[macado]

I did a 3rd dive tonight with my RAM with HPR second stage and I'm still impressed with the performance. It was low tide so didn't really break much over 20ft but still a fun dive.

I will be doing a couple deeper dives next weekend (~100ft) and will probably take this regulator along for the ride.

Question, I noticed that when I originally assembled my HPR second stage I made a mistake and I didn't have the round sides of the washers facing the lever. I have since fixed this but I'm curious if there is any detrimental performance changes if someone accidentally assembled wrong? Does it just have more of a chance of binding up?

[luis]

Question, I noticed that when I originally assembled my HPR second stage I made a mistake and I didn't have the round sides of the washers facing the lever. I have since fixed this but I'm curious if there is any detrimental performance changes if someone accidentally assembled wrong? Does it just have more of a chance of binding up?

It will not cause any damage, but the friction will be more unpredictable and in most cases a bit higher friction. If you reversed it, you will be fine.

[EHowe]

Dove my PRAM-HPR for the first time yesterday to approx 60'. Very impressed. It absolutely breathes better that before, & I was happy then. On assembly I covered one hole & left the other open. At depth I noticed that it tended to puff out my cheeks a little on inhalation, but never free flowed. On the surfase when reg went below surface it freeflowed somewhat violently & would only stop if I exhaled into hose to make it stop. I think I will remove the cover over the one hole & leave it open to see if it corrects this. I expect the free flow would stop on its own when reg is above water.

[Bryan]

Special HPR washers are in route.

[ebj]

I installed the HPR second on my Rebuilt DA today. Everything works fine, but should I install the screws with the flat white washers or the white cups or both? I don't understand the purpose of the two types, and reading the rocket science engineer explanation stuff makes my head want to explode! Somebody, please just tell me what to install so it will work as designed, and I won't have to mess with it again. Thank s in advance for you help!!

[luis]

Just install the flat washers and you will be fine.

The cup washes are only used if you wanted to try to push the performance to the limit, but if you just want good reliable performance, just use the flat washes and go diving.

[ebj]

Thank you Luis. Perfect simple answer!

[Nemrod]

I got my first HPR installed into my main Phoenix, one of the original initialed units, 06-006, from way back. It is the regulator I dive the most and like the best and have been tuning and fooling with the most. Not sure what to think, it seems to breath OK but the CF seems down a bit but the cracking effort is lower/smoother, I think. I also dropped the IP from 145 to 135 psi, maybe that is why it does not seem to have that initial push it had before the HPR install. I took it to the pool today thinking I would try it out after I got my two mile swim in but just as I was about to ask if I could try it out the life guard class showed up and took over the pool unexpectedly, drats! They probably would have let me try it out but I hate getting in their way.

Well, I will dive it at Key Largo soon enough and maybe have time to tune on it a little. I am sure it is just a matter of figuring the HPR out and maybe putting my IP back up a bit. Always a learning curve with something new.

Nemrod

[luis]

With the earlier Phoenix, it seems to be beneficial to use the higher IP as long as the second stage can handle it. The IP recovery (time for the IP drop to rebound during inhalation) in the earlier Phoenix is comparable to the original RAM, which is very good, but it seems to work better with the higher pressures.

We have found that the IP recovery is much quicker with the second generation Phoenix. With the more constant IP (of the second generation Phoenix) we have found that the performance increase from having a very high IP is less noticeable. Then in turn, by being able to drop the IP a bit, it makes the regulator a bit more reliable (less likely to have free flows).

it does not seem to have that initial push it had before the HPR install.

I think that to get the effect you are looking for you need to play with the venturi adjustments. By partially blocking the small side air vents (bleed air) you can adjust the amount of venturi flow assistance.

Just a word of warning, the production units are very close to an ideal balance in the venturi flow (the side bleed holes are a bit smaller than the prototypes). Therefore, blocking only a small amount of bleed air ports will increase the venturi a lot.

With the production units I am using one flat washer on one side (not blocking that bleed air port at all) and one cup washer on the other side. I cut the cup washers in a diagonal so that can rotate the washer and only partially block that bleed air port. I have found that only blocking about half of the bleed air port provides the right amount of venturi flow.

Note: my definition of “right amount of venturi flow” is a fairly aggressive venturi flow without being wildly out of control. This may be too much for most divers.

Keep in mind that venturi flow will be a bit higher with the denser air at depth. With the venturi flow finely tuned, I have found an increase in venturi flow in dives deeper than 60ft or more.

The picture below shows the cup washers cut in a diagonal. This is a picture of the prototype (I will take some new pictures when I have a chance), but it shows the cup washer.

Note: adjusting the cup washers to only partially block the bleed air port is a bit of a hassle, since the washer tends to rotate while tightening the screw, but it can be done with a bit of patience.

Just go slow with the adjustments… or you are going to get more “push” than bargain for.

[Bryan]

Square washers are here and they work great. They are made from Delrin so you can round the edges or trim them down if you feel the need. These will be standard equipment on the HPR starting today. I'll have them in the store and price them to cover the cost of first class postage and the envelope.

Thanks Luis for helping me knock these out so quickly.