Phoenix HPR second stage

[Bryan]

Couple of other shots I thought some of you might enjoy

[Drado]

Couple of other shots I thought some of you might enjoy

I'm making this my wallpaper on my computer - that is of course if I have the express permission of the owner of the photo

[EHowe]

VDH is one step away from having its own double hose if it gets an improved reg body.

I'm closer than you think And this 2nd stage will be a integral part of it!

Cant wait to get my Vintage Spirit catalog in the mail with the complete line of NEW DH regulators, accessories and apparel

[swimjim]

Couple of other shots I thought some of you might enjoy

That's what I call Vintage porn!!!

[Herman]

All I can say is - WOW! I have only one question though; are you sure this is for an Phoenix HPR Royal?? When I look at this new second stage I see a brand new project written all over it. Looks like I'll be building a new "Voit Navy Royale"; Heros-Pennington Process! Great product; I can't wait till they're available! Terry

I can say for sure it started as an upgrade.....now where it may lead is a totally different subject..

[luis]

Just to clarify something, this is the 3D model of the existing Phoenix with the new Phoenix HPR second stage, mounted on a standard Aqua Master (or RAM) main body.

I have been working on a completely new main body that is going to look a bit more stream lined, but that is a future project. As with my other designs it will continue to be forwards and backwards compatible with all the existing hardware.

That is a subject for a future thread.

Couple of other shots I thought some of you might enjoy

[sthtxdiver]

Damm !! that is really something .thanx for all the work and upgrades

[Drado]

The problem is that the coefficient of friction as I have measure it is going to be too low. Yes you read it right, too low. With the plastic (nylon) tips on the prototypes lever the cracking suction was well below the 0.5 inWC and I could not increase it by lowering the IP (and the second stage spring pressure was at its max).
...
The other reason why I prefer the synthetic plate is because it is substantially lighter than the stainless steel plate. The weight of the plate was also affecting the performance and the actuation of the demand valve. Just the plain static weight at times was at the edge of actuating the lever (when the regulator was with the diaphragm facing up). The regulator should perform the same facing in all directions.

I went to my regs to extract the diaphragms, and by jove , the SS plate really does feel smoother than the plastic plate. Decided to check their weights, and there's a half ounce difference between the SS and plastic plates.

[luis]

I went to my regs to extract the diaphragms, and by jove , the SS plate really does feel smoother than the plastic plate. Decided to check their weights, and there's a half ounce difference between the SS and plastic plates.

There is a lot more to coefficient of friction than just surface roughness. As a mater of fact, you can look up and find lots of published tables for coefficient of friction (for static and dynamic friction). And most of them don't even mention surface roughness.

If you are interested on being an engineer, you could probably work on a doctorate thesis just on the subject of coefficient of friction. Note: I don’t have a doctorate (or a PHD) nor do I play one on TV…


I measured 3 new silicone single stage diaphragms and 3 new two stage diaphragms (with the metal plate.
The 3 metal plate (traditional two stage) diaphragm weight about 1.4 ounces (0.088 Lb).
The 3 plastic plate (traditional single stage) diaphragm weight about 0.93 ounces (0.058 Lb).

The plastic plate diaphragm is about 66% the weight of the metal plate (or about 1/3 weight reduction.

To put in perspective:
The diaphragm on a RAM, Aqua Master, or Mistral, etc. has a flexible diameter of about: 4.2 inches.
That translates to a working pressure area of: 13.85 inches square

With a suction of about 0.5 inWC (0.018 psi):
The force on the lever is about 0.25 Lb.

Therefore, the weight difference (0.03 Lb) is 12% of the force (vacuum) required to actuate the demand valve. 12% is a significant amount, but even if it was a small amount, have you heard the expression: “the straw that broke the camels back”.


Note: I just notice that we are off by about 0.1 ounces (0.006Lb). I am not sure about the accuracy of either scale (yours is probably better than mine), but the difference is too small to care. Thanks for the picture.

BTW, this is just about the static weight/ force. The inertia/ dynamic forces are not really a concern in this type of system.

[luis]

It looks like a very simple design and as with all things which appear incredibly simple I suspect a huge amount of thought, planning and experimentation has been put into it, very nice!

Thanks.

Often the simpler things are the more complex to design properly.

For example, the single stage Unicorn is mechanically simple, but designing the proper flow control (to include all conditions), is more challenging than designing a two stage regulator. With two stages it is easier to control the flow in all conditions. It is just easier to design a demand valve when it has a constant pressure (IP) behind it.

I did analysis and empirical measurements to arrive at the designs. I try to avoid doing engineering by trial and error. Designing by trial and error just doesn’t allow you to predict the design behavior in different conditions. It is best to try to understand the mechanics and aerodynamics behind the function of a pneumatic device like this.

[Gilldiver]

Looks like I will need to order 2 second stages, one for my RAM and one for my PRAM.

[usddude]

I asked first.....too soon because I got deleted

steve

[Aileron]

So much stuff happens when I'm away....

I'm salivating at the thought of having some of the kids retrofitted...and that round label is sooooo coool!!! Looks like I need a reg to go with it!

[Bryan]

Getting Closer

[Robohips77]

Can't wait to have my Phoenix get its facelift.