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8dust
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Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:37 pm

Sure I could probably Google-up the topic, but what fun would that be. I'd much rather tap the collected wisdom of those here in our community. As I have said more than once on the forum, I am really not a fan of taking a camera with me while diving as I think it both physically and emotionally insulates me from what's going on… but the flip side of that is that after more than 30 years diving, the only real record I have of most of it is what's in my mind… which used to be just fine, but now I'm pretty sure my mind is failing, and stuff is leaking out… Also, now that my family is spending a bit more time in the water with me, I'd like to preserve those times to the extent possible, especially for when I just can't remember anything about anything. Lastly, I'm pretty sure I have confessed previously about being if not a complete techno-phobe, then at least a techno-curmudgeon. I did give in several years ago and upgraded to a smart phone… and I do love it, I admit… but I am NOT that guy who compulsively has to go out and get the latest and bestest of everything, especially not electronics… This IS Vintage Double Hose after all, and it's the SIMPLICITY of vintage equipment diving that I find the most personally appealing… :D In most all cases, I'm a big fan of simpler is better, and if you can orient your advice with that in mind, so much the better. :lol:

All that said, the Mrs. bought me a silver GoPro last week as a "present," half to take movies of her & the boy with, and half to torture me with as I try and make it do something useful. So far it has remained on the kitchen counter, unopened, and the most I have managed is to have poked it with a stick several times a day on my way through the house…

What I would ask, particularly of some of you frequent & skilled video posters, is to in this thread write as much as you can manage on the topic of taking, editing, sharing digital video. Please also include all the tips/thoughts/recommendations you can come up with on the subject of hardware as few things hurt worse than spending good money on bad stuff, or even just buying some extra fancy superfluous things but then overlooking the one simple bit which is a real must-have.

I would absolutely be in your debt for any and all you may want to share, and I know others of us, experienced or not, will find it very valuable as well. Everybody chime on in, please.

Thanks in advance,
Fred

p.s. – if the GP silver should go back to the store in favor of something else, no problem; I just want to get started off on the right foot/flipper.
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BigMike
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Re: Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:43 pm

Great topic Fred! I really like my GoPro silver and have been using the "trial & error" method of filming so far. Here is some of what I have screwed up n learned so far..
1. Get it attached to you. Yep, I was "that guy" who lost his GoPro at the quarry. I found it during the next dive thankfully. I now have a snap ring coiled cord attached to it and hooked to a D-ring on my chest.
2. Get the Magenta filter for it first. My videos came out bright green and the fix is the magenta (pink) filter. Now you just have to remember to put it on when you dive :D ..
3. I bought one of the float attachments that sticks to the back plate. It floats when you are on the surface and compresses at depth. Even though I have it attached to me, I don't have to be holding it when I'm on the surface. I prefer it to be floating near me rather than hanging down.
4. Buy the micro SD card that GoPro sells. You can buy cheaper ones but if you buy the "GoPro" one, it will work with it. SD cards can be tricky.
5. Play with it in and out of the water. You need to get used to which button does what. The other day, I thought I was turning it off but didn't. I had 16 additional minutes of dive that I wasn't aware of. I ended up turning it off when I got out of the water and realized that it was still blinking.

I'm in the editing phase now. I'm still learning and will update as I screw up/learn more. I have found that it's easier to post to your YouTube page and then post it to other sites from there. I have been using quicktime to edit and I'm sure there are better platforms so I will be looking at other posts. Hey Fred, It won't bite, and you will like watching your experiences.
You are never too old to start a new hobby.

phsdive
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Re: Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:28 pm

Good topic to share a bit of info. I have a GoPro Black 3+nthe 60m housing. I find that I use the GoPro rather than take a bigger camera. If you don't want to shoot just clip it off and not in the way.
For editing I use the free GoPro editing or video pad editor, also free. Both are easy to use but my preference is the GoPro software.
For wide view shots I try not to use lights. I have 10,000 lumen wide angle video lights that are great for closer footage. The GoPro image quality will depend greatly on light. They are great for clear water with plenty of light. I have some good footage of wrecks in 50m and have had it down to 70+ metres.
I mount the GroPro to a tray. For good footage, I have found it useful to have stability and move the camera slowly. Attaching I to your gear or you will generally give a fair bit of movement in the clip.
I use a bit of bungie cord attached to the base clip of the camera and also the tray so if it come loose I don't loose it. Has saved the camera twice now.
My theory for underwater photography; shoot heaps and hopefully get a few keepers. Good luck and have fun.

pclarke1
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Re: Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:15 pm

I use the Zgear bcd mount http://www.zgear.org/ for my Go Pro. I start recording on descent and record through the whole dive. When I see something I want to record I just reach over and point the camera, otherwise I just leave it. From time to time I will reorient it. It generally gives a pretty good record of what went on. The base wraps around one of your tank staps and it has a lanyard that clips on to a D rink for safety.

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antique diver
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Re: Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:31 pm

Hi Fred,
Get that danged camera out and start using it! That's how you will really learn, and the good advice you get on the forum will help you refine and advance your skills.

BTW, we still think about y'all when we eat cornbread. :)
The older I get the better I was.

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DaleC
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Re: Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:00 pm

I'm still learning this whole video thing myself, but I have found a few things that help me. I wrote about it in this article here (starting on page 11): http://pnwups.com/images/Archive/pnw_diver_2014-03.pdf

But to recap.

I use either a short pole or DIY tray for my GoPro's. These allow me to shoot myself by aiming backwards. The tray helps to keep the camera steady, which is a skill I am still trying to work on. The steadier the shot, the better.

Lighting is also important and most dive lights will create a hot spot. I tried several attempts at making a diffuser but am really glad I caved in and bought a dedicated video light. This I have in my left hand on a Goodman handle so I can direct the light. Ideally, I would like two video lights: one mounted on an arm and one in my hand to illuminate from two angles.

The biggest step in video is not equipment, but technique and it can go on and on.

I shoot short clips. This helps in two ways. First it helps in editing. It's really hard to download and edit one humongous clip that has a bunch of different images in it. It's a lot easier to work with short clips that hold one image or idea.

secondly, it teaches you to shoot in the way that you want the finished product to look, and it makes you think about different angles, perspectives, close ups, pan shots and pacing. Just turning the camera on and recording the dive limits you to one type of shot and the pacing is way off. Some clips are only 4-6 seconds between transitions, others hold for longer. I rarely stay still and look for long enough without forcing myself to do so for the camera.

I am also not a fan of head mounts or that sort of thing because it give you an effect called "fire hosing" in which the camera goes wherever you look. Instead I try to mix up the shots. For example:

Entry shot to create a beginning
Straight ahead to show descent
Looking back at me descending
Pan shot of the bottom
Approach shot to object.
Close up of object
Me looking at object
etc...

Now with all those clips I can download into the video software. There I remove the crap, snip the clips to remove unwanted stuff and then stitch them together with transitions etc...

The last thing is what I've learned from youtube and FB. People rarely watch more than 2 minutes of a video, unless the subject really captures them or the editing is good. Making a 10 minute run on dive video will get very few full views. I try to transmit an idea (dive) in 2-3 minutes so I have to be really tight with the edits. Sometimes I have 1 hr of video that gets cut down to 3 minutes. Sometimes I throw out good stuff because it already showed it or it doesn't have much to do with the story.
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swimjim
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Re: Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:44 pm

Wow, where to start. A lot of good suggestions here. The Go Pro is a decent camera and it's handy. You will need some sort of tray to mount it on and then you can mount video lights on arms on that tray. It's key to have separation of the lights and the camera. You want to illuminate the subject and not the water in between the camera and the subject. As with anything underwater you want to be close, say two or three feet and you adjust your lighting so it converges on the subject at that point.
You don't have to spend a ton of money to create a system like this. Trays and arms can be DIY'ed simple enough. Theres a bunch of experimentation you'll need to do to get it right.
Some use filters to correct colors. That works pretty well at shallow depths, but there is no substitute for light. I don't use filters myself. I adjust colors during the editing process. Most editing software I have used over the years has some form of color correction. It works well. For editing, my preferred platform is Apples Final Cut Pro. On my Windows lap top I have Sony Vegas 10. Not a bad program.
As previously mentioned, shoot a series of relatively short clips. 15 seconds to a minute or so. That will make your editing easier. When your looking at your clips and even while shooting them think about a story line. This will help bring things together.
Perhaps one of the most challenging aspects of editing is adding music. I like these guys, https://www.jamendo.com and these guys, http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/ . If you need sound effects like a sonar ping or a ships propeller try this place. http://www.freesound.org/ . Although it's tempting to use copy written music, I try and avoid that.
How long to make your project??? It depends. If you Youtubing it, yeah, two or three minutes. If it's something for the local dive club, about 15 minutes is usually good. If it's something to get rid of the inlaw's, about two hours. LOL. Best of luck!

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DaleC
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Re: Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:03 pm

Get rid of the inlaws... I never thought of that!

Yes, it totally depends on what your goal is for the project. Video can be like diving. Some people are happy swimming around and others really get into it. There is no ultimate right or wrong way.

Here's an early video of mine. It has no beginning or end, no explanation, is really jerky and has hotspots.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4qEUQADztY[/video]

Later I shot this video. Even without a lot of explanation you get a sense of story and I've mixed elements and angles. Still too jerky though.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIds7HVLvmo[/video]



One thing I know I need to move into is narration but I dislike the sound of my voice. It can really help explain what is happening though.
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DaleC
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Re: Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:43 pm

Here's what I use for trays: A stick and this DIY set up. It holds two go pros (one normal and one for macro). I got this idea from googling DIY steady cam rigs for independent film makers. Apparently there are lots of land videographers that do this sort of thing.
With it I can shoot forward, swing around and shoot myself, or put it down and swim into the scene.

Image
Image
Image
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ScubaLawyer
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Re: Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:55 am

Volumes can be written on this subject. I started with 8mm film underwater, went to Super 8, dabbled in 16mm, did some airline dive package shoots back in the 70s, went to Hi-8, DV tapes, etc. I've done everything from manually splicing film segments to VHS controllers editing from multiple decks. The happiest video day of my life was when I got my GoPro Hero 3 and PowerDirector windows editor. With the GoPro shoot everything in HD (1080) at 60 fps. Use a red/magenta filter. Use GoPro's free editing software to color correct each clip. Use PowerDirector to edit, add music, titles, etc.... I've used most of the editing programs out there, none are intuitive. There is a learning curve. I just found PD the most workable for me. Keep segments short. Keep videos short. The only way I've found to get folks to watch my videos to the end is to add gratuitous boob shots. Just saying!

Good luck with everything. Trial and lots of error is key. Matk
"The diver who collects specimens of underwater life has fun and becomes a keen underwater observer. .. seek slow-moving or attached organisms such as corals, starfish, or shelled creatures." (Golden Guide to Scuba Diving, 1968) :D

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DaleC
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Re: Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:24 am

ScubaLawyer wrote:... The only way I've found to get folks to watch my videos to the end is to add gratuitous boob shots. Just saying!...
This post is no good without video... :)
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8dust
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Re: Digital Video – all you can stand to share

Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:00 pm

This is great stuff, Fellas, boobs or no boobs :shock: . I, and I'm sure all the other beginners out there, really appreciate the input. I may just have to open the box this weekend! Diving season is starting to close-in here a bit and I'm not sure how many in-the-water chances I'll have left to try it out, but maybe better to start with some dry land stuff at first anyway to cut down on the variables. I know I'll have exponentially more questions once I get rolling with it.

Bill – Thanks, I'm really delighted you're putting it to good use! :mrgreen:
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