Things we should look at changing.

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Bryan
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:24 am

There is iron in your words....To quote one of my favorite movies..... And I agree with much of what you are saying here Allan. I would love to see the group grow and prosper but not at the expense of what it was originally established to be.
If we are just going to open it up to anyone who owns dive gear then it really negates the V in NAVED.....
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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JES
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:35 pm

Bryan wrote:I'm working on modifications to my current oxygen mask that will allow me to switch to compressed air so it will be much easier to keep it all together on my motorized wheelchair.


:lol: :lol: 8)
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JES
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:34 pm

And as someone (among many others) who wrote a check towards the brochures and wrote the paragraph for it, I can understand the passion that we're feeling on both sides of this coin.

I respect Ron's opinion and appreciate his enthusiasm. Nemrod (NAVED President) and I (NAVED Vice President) have discussed on several occasions what we could do to make NAVED grow and we're always open to new ideas. But, I must agree with Bryan when he said " I would love to see the group grow and prosper but not at the expense of what it was originally established to be. If we are just going to open it up to anyone who owns dive gear then it really negates the V in NAVED....."

I'll climb down from my soapbox and conclude by saying: Whatever we do, let's always try and remain true to the origins of NAVED.
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Bryan
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:30 am

I think there is a lot of opportunity to talk about this at SD VII.
Doing it right should include some common sense, not just blindly following specs and instructions. .Gary D, AWAP on SB

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Nemrod
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:54 pm

After reading through this thread, long ago I had wanted to have a vote for leadership or a board. Currently, unless it has changed, I think I am President, Joe is VP and Rob is S&T and Bryan is chief head smasher or enforcer or Big Kahoona or the Super Kitty Kat.

Thing is that any organization requires money and we have none. The brochures that were "not professional" were done on the cheap and even at that they were EXPENSIVE and I personally carried a considerable portion of the expense as did Joe, Luis, VDH, and forgive me if I left any off, I have a headache.

The banners were provided free to NAVED or we would not have them.

I am against moving the "Vintage Era" date beyond 1974. If the TUSA crowd wants an internet scuba club, there is the whole www.haveatit.com

As to functions, well, SD is a function, if there should be more, spearhead it and make it happen :D

As to vintage equipment, hey, bring what you have and join in, nobody is going to shun you if you are not correct, jeeeez. :lol:

As to the over 50 part, I may look fat and out of shape, but buster, I can swim circles around a killer whale and not break a sweat and my SAC is damn near zero only matched by perhaps Greg Barlow (another 50 something) so watch out there youg'un when you start trying write me off, 50 my rear :roll: He---, everybody in my family lives to be like a 110, I ain't going anywhere soon. :twisted:

Yes, by all means, please, get a more active set of guys, either people who have the youthful drive or the elderly time on their hands to push NAVED to the next level as long as we do not forget what we are all about, an internet club, vintage era gear, methods and techniques.

The 1980 thing, nah, don't they wear like pink or something?

Really, whatever y'all want, change we can believe in. It is all good.

Nem

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Nemrod
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:01 pm

I will say one more thing, there is a lot of ribbing goes on in all of the vintage forums that perhaps some who have not met face to face do not fully appreciate. Trust me, if you show up at SD or wherever to meet and dive with a NAVED member, you will find them to be a friendly and inclusive group who may kid you about using a TUSA second on your non quite correct PRAM but it is just funning around. People should not get bent out of shape over a few jabs to the ribs, tuff up, walk it off, DIVE, DIVE, DIVE, have fun with it!

Nem

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USdiver
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:16 pm

I agree with most all of what has been said concerning not being sticklers for authenticity. Part of almost every vintage diver's collection contains gear from different eras, from the early years of diving to today's computers, silicone updates of original natural rubber parts, or the like. I mix and match my gear and I'm sure you do to. In part it's a safety issue, in part personal choice as we all have a favorite set of fins, mask, suit, regulator, cylinder, etc.

We are not re-enactors, we are divers who choose to use some equipment originally manufactured more than thirty-five years ago. I say let's continue to dive it, and keep our "live and let live" attitude towards other divers who enjoy using their older gear as well. There is nothing wrong with a bit of ribbing or claiming bragging rights to having a more authentic rig, or a more desirable regulator.

For the most part, I consider fellow divers a cut above the rest of humanity. Certainly they are a higher form of life than what we are used to reading about in the news or seeing on television. Nobody should get bent out of shape (save for a case of decompression illness) by what we do, or don't do when diving vintage, nor by how we get along with others who share our same passion.
Too DAAM Many double hoses, It's not a hobby, it's an addiction.

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Nemrod
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:35 pm

Lisa made those pictures in the brochures at some considerable effort and placed them in the brochure, I formatted them to vistaprint. It was a group effort.

For example, the pic that everybody likes with the tanks on the beach, I hate it, yet it is on the brochure and on the banners. Why, because it was voted on. We did vote on a lot of this stuff. I did not just say, this is it, neither did Bryan, neither did anybody else.

I am completely fine if we vote a new set of people, collect dues, have new brochures made, whatever. No more still life of tanks on a beach in Hawaii please. I like action pics. Like tormenting a submarine in Hawaii, not a stupid tank set in the sand.

Nem

swimjim
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:13 pm

I've seen the brochures and I thought they looked just fine. The person handing them out is more important anyway. Nem and Greg for that matter. Compared to my siblings you'd be the runts of the litter. One of the reasons you have a great SAC is your not hauling tonnage around. As a result, you probably will live to see 103. I'm just saying.
My experience with Sand Dogs and a visit to legends and Wazee for that matter only serves to confirm your observations. The Vintage community as a whole is a very easy going bunch. Yes, there is some kind hearted ribbing going on, but it's a blast to attend events. I will try to attend Portage myself this year. Unfortunetly I'm in for hope and change this year. I hope things will change. That means Sand Dog is out for me. Oh well, at least I got a gig where I can get my tanks filled for free.

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simonbeans
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:14 pm

Nemy, "the pic that everybody likes with the tanks on the beach".

I remember that vote well. That pic was up again mine of Freddie aka Scubanut. We tried to stuff the ballot box on that one, but Bryan was running the election. Should have contacted Acorn.

Here's the pic: (You'll have to click it to see it)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/s ... e/fred.jpg
Check out my website: www.vintagescubastuff.com

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Nemrod
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:07 pm

Allen, that pic of Fred is the best ever :D . It lets your imagination tell a story and you the viewer, gets to tell the story.

ACORN, what you saying is the fix was in :lol: .

Nem

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captain
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:46 pm

This thread on scuba board may give some insight as to why it will be hard to recruit from today's younger divers.
No matter how slick or fancy the brochure the fact is most younger divers are not equipped to deal with the art of vintage diving and really have little interest in scuba history as a whole. A few gung ho you'uns like Ron will sign up but they will be few and far between.
It is sort of like music. Each generation favors the music they grew up with, a few cross over to the music of previous generations and fewer still cross over to the music of later generations. Getting young divers into vintage will be like getting rappers into 1940's swing. No way I'll buy a Metallica CD, Ron you want one of my 1960's Swamp Pop CDs

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic- ... ation.html
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antique diver
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:35 pm

Captain, You hit the nail on the head. That also might mean that our older vintage gear will be declining in resale value as time goes on and interest in it wanes. I hope not! :?

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capn_tucker
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:31 am

It will be hard to get most of the younger generation divers interested in vintage diving. They did not grow up with the equipment, or are old enough to have ever seen an episode of Sea Hunt or Undersea World of JYC. They will not be inclined to give up their high-tech computers and other modern crutches to go "old school" either. Plus they have had "that old stuff will kill you" browbeaten into them for years by instructors and dive shop staff anxious to sell expensive new gear.
That being said, I have been encountering a number of divers recently who think the vintage gear is cool. For example, I've overheard a few telling their buddies or students about "how divers used to use J-valves, pull rods and double hoses etc", and then happen to notice us actually using all of those things.
Then they're like "holy crap, there all that stuff is!"
This has gotten me to thinking about organizing some "dive into history" events at the springs where divers like them can actually try out old school diving. It would probably still only be a one-time novelty for most, but IMO if even only a few become interested in learning more or even searching out some vintage gear of their own, then it will have been worth the effort..
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captain
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Re: Things we should look at changing.

Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:25 pm

I believe the only way to substantially advance vintage diving would be for one of the national cert organizations to produce a vintage specialty course.That is full of issues such as instructors, sufficient equipment for training unless the student must provide his own and insurance on something out of the current mainstream of diving education.
I have a few in roads into NAUI. One of the regional reps is a past customer of mine when I had the charter boat and last president of NAUI lives a about 30 miles away. I spoke with him last year about our vintage diving. He appeared somewhat open to a vintage specialty if a set of standards could be written.
If some kind of presentation could be developed that I could present to him to get a reaction as to feasibility.
Having a national organization recognize vintage diving would be a big deal but the main issue is adequate supplies of readily dive able type vintage equipment.

It would seem you would almost have to have a large vintage type equipment industry supplying new vintage style gear similar to the vintage automobile reproduction parts industry to make a vintage specialty doable. Scrapping up old gear on ebay won't cut it. Bryan has gone a long way with regulators but there would still have to be new vintage style masks, fins, wet suits, J valves, BC's etc available. Unless something like that happens then it will remain mostly older divers who are familar with the gear and willing to search around for gear and rebuild it and a few young ones like Ron.
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